Minimum size for wood framed dirt box forge.

[Drunken Dwarf]

Hi all. Im looking at putting together a little dirtbox forge, just for some mobile stuff and maybe some demos. 

I'm building a Mastermyr style tool chest and my plan is to fit an entire smithy into it. Stake anvils, stands, forge, hammers the works.

Whats the minimum thickness of lining between forge bowl and wooden frame people would consider safe? I'm not going to be doing massive projects in it, just the smaller stuff really. I probably don't need more than a 6inch firebowl. It'll be mainly for coal use, with a leather bellows as a manual air source.

Would 2 inches of dirt or cast lining be enough? That would give me a 12x12 inch forge in total which would be pretty neat and easy to pack away. (6 inch firebowl, 2 inches of lining each side and inch thick wooden frame)

 

[George N. M.]

DD, First, most medieval smiths, including the one who lost/deposited his tool chest in Mastermyr Bog probably used ground forges where the fire pot was just a hole in the ground with the tuyere a covered trench leading from the bellows.  So, having a separate, portable forge, is somewhat anachronistic.  I can understand the motivation, though.  I have reached the point in life where getting up and down from the ground is not as easy as it once was.  I believe that the earth's gravity has increased over time.

When I was in the UK in 2000 for the re-enactment of the Battle of Hastings (Y1K) I saw a smith who had made a pedestal of turf blocks for his forge.  I imagine that he returned them to where he had cut them when he tore down at the end of the event.

I think that you proposed 2 inches of dirt would give enough insulation to keep from charring the wooden frame.  Remember that the insulating property of dirt depends on its density.  The more air spaces the better.  A denser, heavier dry dirt will not insulate as well as a lighter one.  You might think about a layer or mixture of something like vermiculite, an expanded mica material, used as a soil amendment for clay soils and often available at garden centers, to increase the insulating quality.

Also, the size of your forge is dependent on what you plan to make.  If you are only going to make brooches and small blades you probably don't need a fire more than a few inches across.  If you are going to be doing larger items like axes, cooking tripods, or large blades you will need a bigger fire and forge.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Drunken Dwarf]

Thanks for the comments George.

I'm aware that most smiths of the age would have made a dirt mound forge wherever they were working, however I've decided to build a standing forge for 2 reasons, although it is not historically accurate. 1, if I were to go to faires and do demonstrations, most hosting spaces don't take to kindly to you digging holes in their ground and charring it somewhat. 2, and the main reason to be honest, if I even try to picture a ground based forge in my head, the small of my back makes it very known that I would be punished harshly for such nonesense

It's a very good idea to incorporate layers of vermiculite or something like that, to increase the insulation. Thanks for that :)

And yeah, this little forge is for the small stuff at shows or whatnot. S-Hooks, brooches, little neck knives etc. I have a workshop where my 'proper' forge and beloved anvil live where I do the 'business' smithing. Very few people would hang around at a demo to watch a 3 hour axe build, but 10 minutes to whip up a nice S-Hook more people will stick with me for

[George N. M.]

I've also discovered at demos that people love to buy something they have just seen made, even if it is exactly the same as what is on your table already.

I've also discovered that I can either demonstrate and keep up a smithing patter with folk OR I can sell and keep up a sales patter with folk.  I cannot do both.  You need a second person to handle sales if you are actually smithing.  

Having pre-cut stock, say, 10" or 12" pieces of 1/4" square for S hooks is a help too.

And people like a touch mark on your work.  I have made Thor's hammers with my touch mark on the back (the Old English rune for G) and have seen folk wearing them with the touch mark out and been told they think it looks better that way.

Site hosts also like it a lot if you have a fire extinguisher handy.  It can be disguised in a period box or canvas bag.

You might also look up the IFI thread on "Show me your booth."

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

It's a shame all the pictures in that thread were lost in the forum update.

[Drunken Dwarf]

I had thought that it'd be the case that more people would buy what they've seen being made. That's one reason I'm going to focus the quick little stuff with the bigger bits pre-made. I make an axe head pendant that's quite popular. Luckily I should be able to count on the wife to run the stall and sales while I do demos, if we can keep the dogs quiet and calm that is.

I'll keep my touch mark readily available too, although its a slightly annoying one as the punch is too short to hold comfortably. I'm thinking of welding a handle to it, but I don't want to mess with the heat treating.

I'll definitely check out that thread, sounds interesting:)

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

I use a small set of tongs with a locking ring as a handle to hold my touch mark. When not using it for that, they hold short chisels and punches.

[ThomasPowers]

Take a look at the carvings of the Hylestad Stave Church for some ideas!  The smiths are shown working standing up at forge and anvil!

[Drunken Dwarf]

That's really interesting Thomas.

While probably not the typical 'travelling craftsman', the first carving showing the forge bellows behind Regin definitely shows the forge at at least knee height, not on the ground. Suggests to me at least that at the time some forges were raised. Makes sense, they would feel that bending down was hurting their backs. The alternative of course was the type Rune Bertrum-Neillson made a video of where he dug out a pit to sit in and work at ground level.

I'm not sure tbh whether to go fully reenactment about it. Onviously if I got in with a reenactment group that'd be different, but I see no harm in adding a non historical twist to traditional techniques. I am 5'1", I can always add some "dwarven" style to traditional feeling setups.

[ThomasPowers]

*Always* nice to be able to document your kit. As I'm well known as mean and evil,  may I suggest you reproduce the Hylestad carvings on your Mastermyr chest?  Bwahahahahahahahahahaha-cough cough.

At "Real Viking II" (IIRC)  I worked off the main fire, raking coals over to where I had my twin single action bellows and working on my knees.  Fun event, I slept under a 10'x20' canvas "sail" in a pile of sheepskin analogues---flokati's.

I've sure by know you are aware that the use of coal for smithing dates to the High/Late Middle Ages and that real charcoal was the forge fuel from the start of the iron age until then but still in use in places until *now*;  due to availability and ease of use.

[Drunken Dwarf]

Recreating my own saga in wood carving? Since I live on a boat and have very little to do of an evening, that sounds quite appealing to be honest.

The event sounds very cool! I'm aware that charcoal was the fuel of the time, but I am not a real viking, but a dwarf of proud mining heritage deep in the coal filled mountains ;). And from a practicality standpoint, while the general public cant often tell the difference between the fuels, the Welsh steam coal I use gives off a lot less smoke and far fewer 'fireflies' to reach the eye sockets of younglings being inducted into the craft

[ThomasPowers]

Till they ban the mining and using of it!  But if you have a good source for good coal---go for it!  I usually pick up my good smithing coal a mere 1500 miles away from my shop; I buy it at Quad-State because after using the GREAT coal the mediocre stuff is not so fun to work with.  Missing Q-S this year I expect I'll get to clean out my coal storage bin and move it and be ready for a refill next fall.

[Drunken Dwarf]

Lol. Im lucky enough that a local smith buys coal direct by the several tonne and resells to everyone in the area for cheaper than we could buy it from the source in more manageable quantities.