Harbinger Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 I am forging a blade out of 5160. Roughed out the basic shape in propane forge, took it through 3 cycles of normalizing and then annealed overnight in vermiculite. Rookie mistake - noticed a bend in the blade after annealing and wondering best way to address it. Planning on re-heating in the forge and flattening it out. My intention is to take it through normalizing and annealing again after that - but my question is - Is this necessary to go through those steps again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 why normalize then anneal? Have you read the HT stickys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbinger Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Thank you for the reply. Just went through them again. I guess I was under the assumption that 3 rounds of normalizing would help with grain refinement and then annealing would additionally help to soften the steel to allow ease with drilling holes through the tang (I never had it clear if this was absolutely necessary - I was wondering if the heat prior to annealing after normalizing would increase the grain size again..). - I obtained this idea from the book "A Modern Guide To Knifemaking" by Laura Zerra - this is the quote: "After the steel has been normalized, it will be relatively hard. Without further processing it will be very difficult to work with tools. By annealing the steel, you bring some of the softness back while maintaining the homogeneous grain structure." Please let me know your thoughts - HT seems to be one of those subjects that many people have opinions on - I am working to develop a system that works for me and I am open to learning from the wisdom of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 7, 2021 Share Posted March 7, 2021 anealing softens the steel, but in the process creates very large grains, after annealing you work the the blade, THEN normalize before hardening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbinger Posted March 7, 2021 Author Share Posted March 7, 2021 Thank you - appreciate the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 8, 2021 Share Posted March 8, 2021 What Steve says! Annealing *after* normalizing is contraindicated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velegski Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Harbinger. I would suggest that you follow the normalizing and annealing temps and techniques of full time knifemakers rather than survivalist. For instance, one document suggests that the normalizing temps for 5160 are 1600F while the annealing temp is in the 1250F range. Another uses a higher 1550f annealing range. Of course im fat fingered that one. Meant to say I'm not talking about any of the annealing techniques. Everyone has their own favorite cooling technique. Sorry. Missed your real question. Just heat it up again, keeping below your quench temps. Just have a straightening system ready after your quench. It might decide to bend again after quench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbinger Posted March 9, 2021 Author Share Posted March 9, 2021 Good advice - I found that book easy to follow - but we learn as we go. I am thankful this resource exists and you guys are willing to help out (I will attempt to pay it forward as I am able). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Knowing if data is good or not is always an issue; one of the classic old blacksmithing books has some "interesting" stuff in it as it was written by an author who was talking with old smiths and every once in a while it seems they tried to pull his leg on something and now it's in the "canon".... My fallback are the old ASM manuals written by metallurgists for metallurgists where millions or great liability may rest on "getting it right". OTOH they are dense and turgid to read though and often expect you know the lingo perfecto! (They are also expensive; I pick them up whenever I stumble on one cheap and don't worry too much about how old they are as most of my work is with alloys that have been around a while...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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