NC Forge Knifemaker Review

[Adodero]

I see a lot of folks asking about this forge, so I thought I'd share my impressions of it, since there isn't a lot of conclusive information on it. 

A bit of background...I'm fairly new to forging, I've been at it about 6 months and have forged maybe around 15-20 knives total. All but 3 were in the Knifemaker forge. I ran the forge atop a NC tool stand and connected to both a 25lb and 40lb tank (meaning I tried both, not connected them both at the same time). 

Construction

The forge itself is fairly heavy and sturdy feeling. It isn't super easy to move around, but I don't think any of them (Graham excluded) really are. It's heavy and stays in place. It's a square interior surrounded by some form of insulation, which doesn't appear to be sufficiently rigidized, as it blows out every time you light the forge. The two doors are similarly coated in the same insulation, which also blows out if you move them at all while you are using the forge. I'm sure I could've coated it in something to address this, but should I really have to do that on a $650 forge?

Somewhat more frustrating is the manual does not mention anything about how this is a safety issue aside from one line about carcinogenic fibers, yet this is one of the biggest no-nos I found online people discussed when insulating their own forges. It makes me wonder how many people are running this forge without any kind of refractory or rigidizer to prevent insulation from being blown out. 

The burners are bolted to the body of the forge using a single bolt. The gas distribution is delivered through small brass valves threaded onto a 'T', which sits on the burner and is bolted in place with a strap, which is then connected to a 1/4in 90 degree bend and ball valve, which goes to the regulator. 

 

I forgot to look if there are holes to bolt it down, but I don't think there are, looking back at the photos. This was always a temporary forge for me while I waited for my Chile to arrive, so I didn't consider bolting it down. 

One thing to note is that I observed the lip of the chamber started to deform after about a month or so, as shown in the photo below:

Burner adjustment

Rather than detail this process, here is a video they publish on it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlhyECVG0Bg

This is one of the biggest knocks on this forge that I have. Compared to other forges I've seen, this process is janky, you are basically bolting it all together and hoping it holds in place. You have basically no refined adjustment of the burner or atmosphere, it's the bare minimum of making sure it works and that's about it.

My initial firing of the forge had a really strange, clearly overly rich flame, which I was able to address, but you don't have much more control of the atmosphere outside of making sure it burns (I'm comparing this to the Graham, which isn't really fair since it's blown, and other burners that use a sliding cylinder to adjust the mixture). Making the adjustment itself is tedious and it often moves out of place, requiring you to try it again. 

Operation

I tweaked this a fair bit and was able to run as low as 2.5psi and up to around 10psi. I never tried to forge weld in it, so I didn't really try to exceed 10psi. I used a pyrometer at the lowest setting and it showed ~1750f, I doubt you'd be able to get it below that. If you were interested in HT, like I was, then that's probably worth noting, along with the pronounced hot spots (more on that later). You can move the blade in/out to keep it a bit more even, but if you expect to soak it and let it sit, you can anticipate two very obvious hot spots. 

It uses a lot of propane compared to the Graham I'm currently using. I was forging maybe ~7-10 hours with it before I had to refill my 40lb tank, I've done probably close to twice that, including 4-5 hours of forge welding in the Graham and still have plenty of fuel in the tank. Again, Graham is blown, so probably not the best comparison. 

The forge has two massive hot spots on it, you can see them in the photo below. It actually makes bringing it up to heat a little difficult if you are trying to work the center of a piece, you really have to try and position it under the burner to get it hot, because the inside of the forge doesn't seem to retain temps high enough to apply even heat to the work piece. 

The amount of scale produced by this forge is, once again, much higher than the Graham. I have worked a 2-3 pieces on the Graham from stock to rough shape and the amount of scale on the floor or around my anvil was not even half of what it would have been with the Knifemaker on the same piece of steel. I'm assuming this has to do with the atmosphere in the forge, but all the tweaking I tried, I couldn't get it to produce less scale esp if it sat in the forge a while. 

Conclusion

After working with a few other forges now and owning the Graham, I don't think the Knifemaker is terrible, but it's way over priced for what it is. The $650 price point for the forge is excessive given its size, the fact it blows insulation out both doors everywhere, and the rudimentary burner design. For me, this forge was between one from Atlas and the Chile, I ended up ordering the latter, but it has a 10-12 week wait. Having used, and now own, one of the Atlas forges, I would strongly suggest one of their options compared to the Knifemaker given the price point, propane usage, and overall design. The Chile is a step above both, but comes with a price that reflects that. The Knifemaker gets very hot and the opening doors is a nice feature, which I used, but I struggle to find the justification for what they are asking given there are better options with similar features for ~$400. I ultimately feel the value isn't there for the price they are asking, although I could start to find more value around the 400-500 price point.

Granted, my main point of comparison is the blown Graham forge, so it probably isn't a fair comparison, however I've used other forges in recent weeks from Atlas and other companies, all of which were more efficient and at a better price point than the Knifemaker. I have briefly used my Chile Habanero and it provides a larger chamber, better fit/finish, easier atmosphere adjustment, and no insulation issues. That said, the Habanero does have similar hotspots, although they are less noticeable than with the NC

I'll give special mention to the stand. Someone locally warned me about it and I didn't heed it. It's a piece of junk. I can't believe they charge $165 for this thing when it looks like a folding stand you could buy at Lowes for $30. It's wobbly, the legs are uneven, and there is nothing to keep the legs together except the weight of the forge, so if you hit it hard enough the wrong way, it could collapse. Do not waste your money, instead buy a Little Giant or similar machine stand for the same cost that's more stable.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Adodero
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[SLAG]

Mr. Adodero,

Your pictures of the insulation escaping form the device, are disturbing.

The substantial cauliflower residue outside the gas forge, is frankly alarming. 

The deformation of the outside of the chamber is also cause for alarm.

Is your gas forge a very bad, defective one off, or a standard problem for that model. If it is the latter, why hasn't other users brought this problem to the  smith community after a good number of years

These problems may be an existential threat to the user. Are these forges not subject to federal regulation and testing?

I thank you for your review.

I was seriously considering buying my first gas forge.  (a N.C. Whisper Momma), at the end of the upcoming month. Now I am not so sure. 

I will eagerly look forward for the N.C. folks to reply to your review on this thread.

I wonder what Frosty and Mikey will have to write, if indeed they do so, to this thread.

Again,

Thanks,

SLAG

 

[Adodero]

One thing I meant to add is that the forge heats much more evenly with the doors closed. It, of course, gets a lot hotter, so you won't be able to use this to soak, but it does make it easier to get a more even heat across the work piece. There were a few times I did this with rods and just kept the door shut, the entire rod came out roughly the same color. If you require even heat on your work piece, it's basically required to keep both doors shut.

I'd also add that there is a 'shelf' of sorts by the door. Unlike the Chile, there is an elevated piece of fire brick on either end, which is visible in the photo of the opening above. It can make fishing pieces out of the forge a little tricky if they fall down in there. I made a poker to pry pieces up when removing them, but also made a habit of resting the work piece on the side to make it easier to get out if I was sticking the whole knife in the forge.

 

11 hours ago, SLAG said:

Mr. Adodero,

Your pictures of the insulation escaping form the device, are disturbing.

The substantial cauliflower residue outside the gas forge, is frankly alarming. 

The deformation of the outside of the chamber is also cause for alarm.

Is your gas forge a very bad, defective one off, or a standard problem for that model. If it is the latter, why hasn't other users brought this problem to the  smith community after a good number of years

These problems may be an existential threat to the user. Are these forges not subject to federal regulation and testing?

I thank you for your review.

I was seriously considering buying my first gas forge.  (a N.C. Whisper Momma), at the end of the upcoming month. Now I am not so sure. 

The insulation was definitely concerning. You could light the forge and watch it shoot out the front. I didn't think much of this until I started reading around and discovered the health issues surrounding this. It's kindof surprising because NC is a well established company and have made farrier forges for some time, but I found some old message board/forum posts where folks talked about the same issue, so I doubt it's isolated to mine. They do explicitly mention this effect in the manual. I could be mistaken, though, I haven't seen another one. 

As for why it hasn't been raised before, I can't speak to that. There isn't really a good consolidated resource for product reviews that I've found, likely because people purchase a forge and then stick with it for years or decades. I plan on making similar posts (I already posted my Graham review) for all three forges I have owned, but it'd be nice if there was a more consolidated resource with product reviews.

I got to use a Whisper Mama a few days ago for the first time and it seemed better. I think the smaller opening combined with the larger side door made for a much more efficient forge. It was also considerably quieter and I noticed the chamber seemed to heat much more evenly. It seemed more suitable IMO especially for general blacksmithing. 

I read another post here some time ago where a user railed on NC forges as being 'modified farrier' forges and aren't suitable for making knives. I didn't understand what he meant at the time, but think I do a little better now given the heavy oxidation and lack of even heat. That said, the Whisper Mama seemed to have fewer of those issues. The Knifemaker for me just seemed like they cut some doors in and slapped the same burners on, but didn't discuss with knifemakers what their needs were. The previously mentioned ledge is a good example of this, I don't really want to have to dig around in the forge to pry up a work piece because it dropped behind this 'ledge', yet knives are frequently of a size that would fall behind it easily. 

All that to be said, you might be better with the Whisper Mama, but I can't say for certain. 

[Mikey98118]

First off, thanks for the reviews.

As to the existential threat. Frosty, Mikey, and many others have repeatedly gone over the answers to it: Rigidizer, and  coatings, or rigidizer and hard refractory flame layer. The answers are cheap, easy, and available in small amounts from Glenn.