IFB: Are some manufacturers better than others?

[MT Hammer]

Hi all, I am building my first forge and burners, and have been reading this forum for months. In fact my brain is so full of information, that I have seriously began forgetting a good deal of what I’ve read here!

i’m building a propane shell forge, with 2 tee burners (and here I’ll add my great thanks to Frosty, along with the many others), and I am planning to simply use bricks for front and back doors. Seems like 2600 degree is a good choice, but I’m not sure about a manufacturer.

I’ve read Frosty and others suggest Morgan Thermal Ceramics k26. I have yet to find an online source for these, but see a lot of other 2600 IFB from other manufacturers.

I plan to call around to see what I can buy locally. Before I do though, i’d like to understand if the relative quality is similar regardless of the manufacturer, for the same temperature rated IFB. 

Thanks!

[Frosty]

The company doesn't have a lot of locations in the US but there are a lot of distributors that carry their products. In Alaska I get K-26 IFB at a local furnace service and supply company, "Distribution International." DI may have an outlet near enough to you, I know they have a number in the lower 48. 

Try calling furnace and HVAC service and supply companies. If a company doesn't carry or sell refractories they will know who does. Use the telephone, the online contact is a good way to be ignored if you aren't looking for large quantities like several pallet loads of brick. A phone call gives you a human and it's much easier to find things you want or need.

I'm not familiar with other brands of high temp IFB so can't opine. K-26 is easily available and DI gives the club a nice discount. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[MT Hammer]

I see a lot of 2600ºF-rated insulating fire brick carried by many sources, but few specify Morgan.  What I was really after was some experience or advice regarding other manufacturers, and if one 2600 brick is basically as good as another.

I did finally this comment regarding K-26 and specifying Morgan Thermal Ceramics on page 37 of the Forges 101 thread. That seems to suggest that perhaps not all K26 IFBs are created equal.

And yes, for the record, in my small town, when I call around and ask for Insulating Fire Brick, I find that they either don't know the manufacturer, or they tell me that the bricks are all the same. I tend to trust the experience found here a bit more.  I also live an 8-mile round trip from civilization, so I get most everything delivered -- this does have its downsides at times.

[Frosty]

Yeah, even DI doesn't specify Morgan for any of the refractories they carry or use. The office guys I talk to are both really into fire and we hit it off pretty well. . . in PERSON. I brought in the rubbed, IFB I'd been buying there, it really shocked them. And once AGAIN I described what king of temps my propane forge reached and to illustrate I showed them the vitrified 3,000f hard split fire brick I was using as the forge floor.  The IFB I'd been buying until then was only rated to 1,200f. what they have to withstand as the outer / insulating liner in boilers. Certainly NOT the close to 2,800f+ in my shop forge. It'll turn mild steel into a drippy sparkler. 

Then we walked back in the warehouse and they showed me boxes and pallets of IFB finally coming to a pallet of Morgan k26 as the highest temp IFB they carried without special ordering.  While wandering around reading labels it became apparent almost all the refractory in stock comes from Morgan. 

It's 56 miles to the DI warehouse each way from my home in the woods. I still drive though, you?

I don't know of other comparable IFBs but I do know it's not likely the counter guy really knows what's what product wise and getting them to walk back and read a label is like trying to get a teenager to clean their room. Some places aren't close enough to the warehouse to look, all they have is books and the warehouse guys sometimes just load what's close.

Sometimes you just have to go look for yourself if you don't want to pay for a special order. You have to put on a smile unless THEY screwed the pooch, then a little red faced leaning on the desk discussion might work. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[MT Hammer]

Ah, shoot, I just read my reply and was embarrassed by my 8-mile round trip. Wow a WHOLE 4 miles to town? Ah, how terrible.  Actually, just a typo... it’s an 80-mile round trip.

Yes, I do make the drive as required, but especially now with the Covid spike, I’m personally less comfortable spending a lot of time chatting with people I don’t know.  It is nearly impossible to gain the insights online, and even difficult over the phone. In person is best I agree, but just not practical for me at this time. Other readers may feel differently.

It may be that many retailers carry Morgan products and don’t even know it. It could also be that resellers would claim to sell Morgan products but substitute cheaper bricks, especially if purchased in less than carton quantity. Do the bricks themselves have any markings which would identify them as Morgan Thermal Ceramics K26?

[pnut]

Has anyone tried the Harbison Walker greentherm26LI bricks from DI? 

Pnut

[Frosty]

A typo makes a lot more sense, I was wondering there. I don't go anywhere I don't have to, I'm pretty high risk so I tend to stay here in the woods if possible. 

Perhaps DI will ship to you, I just searched on the DI location page and didn't find one within 100 miles of the two zip codes I entered. You might have better luck knowing your area better, I'm just some guy on the internet guessing from Alaska. Distribution International has outlets all over the country and they ship. If they don't carry a product they'll get it for you. It'll cost of course but. . . 

At least the Anchorage DI is a bend over backwards for you outlet. 

I haven't looked at HW's IFBs.  HW is a top shelf manufacturer but I'm not familiar with most everything they make.

Frosty The Lucky.

[MT Hammer]

I ended up buying from an eBay seller. I realize that may sound risky, but this seller looked to be on the up and up.  I just received the shipment yesterday, and it was exactly correct Morgan product. I ended up getting a carton of 3" thick, and I will resaw some of them to other thicknesses. Including shipping, these turned out to cost $7.50 each, which may not be cheap, but is less than I found anywhere else in small quantity. 

I can't speak highly enough of this seller. He actually refunded $10 to me when the actual shipping cost turned out to be less expensive than estimated. The bricks were still factory sealed in the MTC carton, and then surrounded by foam in another box. The shipment was very fast via FedEx.  Wow. I know I am not supposed to directly link to a specific product or Web site here, but I'm not sure about naming an eBay seller. I would recommend this one, and feel free to PM me if you'd like the name.

Sorry that I can't add any insight into the main purpose of my original question...

[Frosty]

Unless I misremember you were asking US for insight in your original question and ours is limited. 

The price for Morgan K-26 bricks was a little over 1/3 the price of the old 1,800f. IFBs that used to be available. It wend from $12 and change ech down to under $3.45 each here. They're the supplier's on the shelf IFB and they buy by the rail car. Talk about bulk discount! Better still one of our members buys them by the pallet, he's a caster and goes through them at a significant pace. His price is under $3.

Keep us in the loop on your forge build please.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[Quitemanforge]

howdy all,

i have a quick question.... Im building a soft firebrick forge.. should i go with a plistex coating or kasto lite 30? Im sure this has been answered somewhere I must have missed it . lol well this just gives me a reason to come out of the shadows and say hi all !! thanks everybody in advance for your input

btw i know soft brick are fragile and such but i cant do the kaowool due to health issues so I'm using bricks.

 

[MT Hammer]

I was building a typical propane bottle forge, starting with kaowool.  However, one of my applications for the IFBs was to provide a more stable "subfloor".  I shaped the bricks to match the radius like so:

These then neatly fit into the bottom:

With that said, I can now address your question a bit better.  As I understand things, Kast-O-Lite 30 is a castable refractory, while Plistix is a kiln wash.  The Plistix would probably add a little strength to your soft brick, and certainly re-radiate IR, but will not add the strength of Kast-O-Lite.

What I did was to then add a layer of Kast-O-Lite over the soft brick:

Later on of course, I also cast the walls and the roof. After the casting was cured, I then painted on Matrikote, which is similar to Plistix. In fact, in hindsight I probably should have used Plistix instead. Again though, Plistix is a kiln wash. I'll let others weigh in on whether or not it could add strength and durability to soft insulating brick.

I certainly understand the health concerns of kaowool. However, if proper precautions are used during installation, and then it is rigidized and encased in Kast-O-Lite, then I think the possibility of releasing fibers is eliminated. 

Also, from what I've read, soft bricks alone on the floor would not be a good idea as they would not hold up well at all. I assume you were planning on using hard brick or a kiln shelf on the floor.

[Quitemanforge]

thank ya  like you I've  been reading and studying and pondering just how to get things to come together I'm getting there thou thank ya all again