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Forge size opinions wanted


Raspvtin

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Hello all I am currently in the design process for building a new forced air ribbon burner forge. I have the specs for the most part finalized, but I wanted opinions on the chamber size if its to big (or highly doubtful to small). Its current iteration is 5"H x 8.5"W x 18"L with 2.5" 2600f fire brick plus a bottom plate of .5" Mizzou. The chamber size is 765in3 the burner is a 3" by 12". There will be an itc100 lining as well plus some shielding for the brick, but haven't nailed that decision yet.

I know this question gets brought up a lot, but what makes it difficult for me to figure out size is this forge is for a hacker/makerspace so its uses are across the board. Plus we just got our own MZ75 power hammer so metal size isn't limited to hand forgable.

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At this point I doubt it will I've been debating having a larger opening, but it's a fight between length vs width and height to keep the chamber at an efficient size. The problem is the skill levels are all over the place. We have some who have been forging probably before I was a gleem in my parents eye to those just beginning. My eventual goal once capital is available is to have a couple different sized forges like we used to.

But thanks for the clam idea our old one has it but its basically warped shut so have been ignoring it.

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When you say 2,600f bricks, do you mean, K-26 Insulating Fire Bricks? If you plan on using old style IFBs you're going to be very disappointed they don't last.

Pick something other than ITC-100 it's not as effective as once thought and is perishable in a propane forge. Plistex or Matrikote fire hard, are chemically stable and remain concrete hard at welding temps. 

Have you built a propane forge before? You might seriously consider using one of the proven designs as posted here.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Yeah the K-26. My old design was using a 7 gal air tank in the same style as the propane tank forges here in IFI. The problem I ran into with that design was for some reason no one locally unless this post diggs someone up sells high temp/durability castable refractory. If it was my money to spend sure I would pay double to ship it, but not feasible currently. We have a few producers/distributors near here who say they do small quantity, but they either wont respond to me or stop talking to my part way through. So I switched to the firebrick box knowing its not durable, but we can easily replace it when we need to. 

Thanks for the ITC info usually when I peruse through here I forget to check the dates when google brings me over so most of them about it must have been older. Plistex was my second go to, but I haven't heard of Matrikote at least that I remember ill go look into that.

I might still have enough Mizzou left over from making the burners that I can do a half face on the 7 gal with insawool 2in thick. with very rough estimate brings it to a chamber of 462in3.

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It's hard to believe HWI doesn't have an outlet in Chicago! You guys have furnaces and winters after all. Other than a few specialty things I have trouble believing there's something you can buy in Anchorage Ak. you can't find in Chicago. 

Of course if you buy from Glenn you don't have to figure out what to do with the left over 50lbs. in the 55lb. sack. 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

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Its not in chicago i think its between here and cincinnati I believe, but yeah I had that same thought when I started looking for supplies. I always try contacting ahead to see minimums and packaging so I know what to expect and if I can move it they just never responded to me after 3 or 4 inquiries I stopped trying. Allied did actually contact be back but bounced me over a few departments then stopped responding. So yes its available in the area, but for some reason they are being difficult and after dealing with that kind of stuff  at my tell people about job got tired of it sucking the joy out of something I enjoy. 

We do have smaller suppliers for lower heat and durability stuff, but this kind of thing would like welding heat available and some durability. I did go back to the other design either one would work. Like I said there are a lot more variables working with newbies upto experienced smiths plus no specialty makes me wish I was just making one for myself would be a whole lot easier of a process.

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I’ve gotten some things from Armil CFS in south holland Illinois. Its a bit of a drive but not terrible.

they sell refractories on the side.  It a ton of information but if you call you can talk to a real live sales person.

I hope it helps!

 

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On 3/13/2020 at 5:57 PM, Raspvtin said:

they just never responded to me after 3 or 4 inquiries I stopped trying.

Tried the online contact or emailed them didn't you? I don't know of anybody who responds to online questions anymore. The person looking at online contacts requests is there to handle orders, preferably in quantity. Call on the telephone, the receptionist knows what's what better than the CEO and can answer you directly or put you in contact with someone who does.

Don't expect them to break a sack, I don't think HWI sells single sacks. It'd be like calling a refinery to fill your car, WAY wrong end of the system.

Frosty The Lucky.

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The ones out here at least some state they have sales setup for building pizza ovens and other small operations for individuals. I wasn't planning one bag if I could buy direct as I have other projects I can use the stuff for. Some of them did respond to my inquiries and some didn't the ones who did just stopped responding.

I do find it strange anymore how hit or miss the online contact is from industry to industry. My don't make my parents disappointed job we are very quick to respond to them, but I have had other cases where they never did.

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9 hours ago, Raspvtin said:

My don't make my parents disappointed job we are very quick to respond to them, but I have had other cases where they never did.

Forgive me please but this sentence is almost meaningless. I picked it because it's the worst in this post but it's hard to understand what you write and I have practice figuring out folks who speak other languages on Iforge. I'm sure you know what you mean but all anybody else CAN know is what you say. What you write here is just a mess, almost random words. 

If you want busy people to respond you really need to speak clearly. If they have to stop and read your message several times to figure it out they just aren't going to. Repeated messages will just be deleted and finally filtered. In my experience the business world doesn't speak text for business.

I'm not being mean but I honestly have a very hard time trying to figure out what you mean. Is English not your first language? 

Frosty The Lucky.

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The main points of this thread have already been discussed and figured out at this point its just a convo so the effort to make it sensical was deemed not a priority. I apologize if I have wasted you time after the thread had fulfilled its purpose. 

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It's not a waste of time to chat, it's how humans exchange information.

I was pointing out you were using: syntax, phrases, terms and abbreviations that weren't making sense in the "American" English language. "Convo" took a reread for example, I'm good at defining words from context but it inhibits communication if the reader has to decode everything.   If it's your habit to leave off suffixes that define a word or add unnecessary ones and make random abbreviations you will have a hard time talking to people professionally. 

You aren't in a college dorm or cafeteria where exclusionist slang is the game. I remember my days of speaking a "secret" language my parents, instructors, etc. didn't understand and how fluid it had to be to remain a secret language. It was fun when I was a kid. I'd bet youngsters have played the game since we developed language. In the real world though, communicating ideas is what matters, not speaking a jargon only the in crowd understands. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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I did its why I said I was switching back to the old design since it uses less refractory so I can do one order. The original question was answered hence why I went elsewhere with the thread. I tried to throw a little humor I apologize for it.

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One thing to remember is that a number of our readers read IFI in translation and so have difficulties with "standard" English.  Most translation programs do much worse with "non-standard" English.

Water Sheep anyone?  I was once tasked to go over a set of designs for earthquake bracing for the computer system we were installing.  Unfortunately they were all in Japanese. Fortunately we had a native Japanese speaker in our company. Unfortunately they were NOT a mechanical engineer or architect. Fortunately they had a Technical Japanese Dictionary. Unfortunately it was Japanese to Japanese... 

I still remember them pointing to a strut and saying "this is like where a ship goes?"   Obvious to me that they meant it was steel "channel"!   As I expected; the designs were very well done, meeting their code for a seismically active region. 

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