Trade Axe with Hammer Eye? Is that strong enough?

[Greebe]

I have DeLaRonde's book "Blacksmithing Basics for the Homestead" and have always been curious about the trade axe he makes with a hammer eye. Would that be strong enough handle connection for serious work. If it is, it seems like it might be a easy way to form a small belt / trade axe eye. Thoughts on this? Thanks!

Axe in question is on the far right:

[MilwaukeeJon]

Don’t fully know what you mean by “serious work”. I’ve made a number of these smaller axes for prepping spoon carving billets, among other things, and they’ve held up fine. Not sure I’d march around the forest chopping down giant trees with it or clean logs for a house but for conventional hatchet work they are really nice. 

[pnut]

I like hatchets that have a tapered eye. A hammer eye should be shaped like an hourglass  so I don't see why it wouldn't be strong enough.  

Pnut

[Greebe]

10 hours ago, MilwaukeeJon said:

Don’t fully know what you mean by “serious work”. I’ve made a number of these smaller axes for prepping spoon carving billets, among other things, and they’ve held up fine. Not sure I’d march around the forest chopping down giant trees with it or clean logs for a house but for conventional hatchet work they are really nice. 

By serious work I mean used hard. For instance I have a farm / homestead and I use my axes more in a month then most people do in a whole year. For me this can be Minnesota winter camps cutting wood for fires when sleeping out in a leant-to shelter, driving stakes, etc. Then I use an axe for plenty of homestead chores often times cleaning out culverts of small trees that the beavers put in my 4ft culvert to plug it up. Often times I have to chop through much ice to do this. I also use my axes for logging on in my woodland. The axe can be used for knocking in felling wedges and for knocking out the wedge cut in the tree for felling. An axe stays on the tractor as well for all sorts of use while doing work around the place, could be fencing repair, or clearing small trees that fall over trails on my property. I have broken regular small axe handles so that was my concern with a small handle connection like this hammer eye's axe.

If it were to break that is not a huge deal, I can make a new handle out of ash, but I do not want to forge an axe / hatchet with a built in weakness if not necessary. I have larger axes for heavy work if need be, but a small belt axe is much more handy to carry around all day when doing work on the place.

Thanks!

[jerry p.]

I think I would look at the time period the axe came from 18th 19th century. I would think that like you they would have used them much harder then most people would use today.  So I would think they would not have kept make that style of axe if it did not do a good job.  Just my 2 cents.

[MilwaukeeJon]

3 hours ago, Greebe said:

By serious work I mean used hard.

That axe in question does have a pretty small eye....smaller than I would make with a hammer drift. On the other hand, it has really thick cheeks, so those would definitely hold up as long as the axe head was not improperly hardened and tempered in that area (I don’t bring that part of the head up to critical when heat treating the bit). 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Mod30
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[Latticino]

I don't think there is any question of the axe head holding up, it is the wood inside the eye that is the question.  If you use your axes hard, as the OP describes, I would certainly change the eye shape during forging (at least).  Anyone capable of forging that nice of a hatchet should be able to forge a larger hammer eye opening, if you want to keep with that style, or switch it to a more conventional teardrop axe eye.

In either case, as far as I'm concerned, the defining difference between a hawk eye and axe eye is that the former has a tapered handle that has a simple friction fit, and the latter a fitted top section that requires a wedge.  In my understanding the better versions of the fitted section have an hourglass crossection (like hammers) to allow wedging without a sharp transition at the bottom of the eye (regardless of whether they are oval shaped, or teardrop shaped).

Note that period belt axes were made with a fairly large variety of eye shapes.  There are some that are quite small and thin for axes with bits that were no more than 2" long.  Needless to say these were not used for heavy work, but were certainly useful for other chores (and lighter for packing as well).  It is a compromise that we still need to deal with.

[Greebe]

I am not worried about the strength of the axe head, but the handle. I have a few tomahawks that I have forged and have always been a fan of slip fit handles, but I wanted a thinner profile for my next axe. That is why I was looking at this style. Besides I just think it looks cool. I will be making my own drift, so I can modify it to be larger if need be. Regardless of eye shape, I will be making my own handle from ash that I harvest at my place so I need not be tied into a specific shape to fit store bought handles. I have found that hammer handles are quicker to make which is the appeal to this style axe with the hammer eye. I might just have to make one this way and see how it holds up.