Jay.bro Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I have searched and haven't found references to these burners here yet. Maybe you guys can shed some light for me. So recently I've been watching this Australian gentleman on YouTube that goes by the name of BigStackD and he does metal casting using devil forge burners and furnaces. The burners he uses have a bolt mounted o-ring type spin valve on the rear of them and are naturally aspirated. My question is could this technique of air control work for a forge burner? A ribbon burner? Or is it specifically used for casting furnaces? He has one with a slide valve as well that works similarly. He isn't a how to channel but I genuinely enjoy watching his content and his burners got me thinking about if the design is transferrable. It looks simple enough to build. Just wanted some input from you guys that may have experience with these types of burners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Burners aren't better for one piece of heating equipment over another one. More than one here have noted that the burners made for Devil forges are one of the better kinds available in their price range--so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 I was just curious to the use of it more with air control. Especially with ribbon burners. I have read a lot of your threads Mikey. And they are super informative. I'm looking at designing and planning for my first propane forge build. I've been using a charcoal forge and our new landlords say we can't use charcoal grills or even forge at the house. I have been talking around and it seems that propane is more widely accepted in our area. I was planning on building the entire thing including the burners. Just was hoping to find out the uses of the adjustable airflow and see if it was worth building that way or just to do a t burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 "T" burners seem to work just fine in ribbon burner forges. I hate to turn away costumers, but if I were planning to build a ribbon burner forge, I would be haunting their pages to pick up all the background available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 I've been researching them for quite a while actually. Believe it or not I actually got the idea reading Frosty's thread about naturally aspirated ribbon burners. I read about his troubles with adjusting the amount of holes for the air fuel mix and I thought about the burners with the adjustable flow like devil forge. Wouldn't it be easier to adjust the fuel air delivery to the burner nozzle (in theory) than to adjust the nozzle build to the stock fuel air setting? I'm not against your burners or t burners just trying to absorb any knowledge I can before deciding on what to build. I know t burners are tried and true, the ribbon burners are quiet and efficient and the devil forge style are adjustable and work well just from some threads I've found and watching the guy on YouTube melt cast iron with one. He very clearly stated not to try it and how dangerous it was in the video. I do know I really want to go naturally aspirated so I don't have to purchase a compressor and all that equipment I'm planning on a coffee can forge or maybe a propane tank forge. I've considered doing a riveted steel plate forge in a square design like most commercial forges look like but coffee can and propane tank seem to be the simpler option for my first propane build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I posted my process for finding the right number of outlets for the inducer I used to drive the ribbon burner. They weren't problems per/se they were the results of bracketing to find the better number. Once tuned a NA burner should run within the flammable ratio at any point in it's operating range. Burners with chokes, whether screw plates or sleeves are designed to draw more air than necessary (lean) and use the choke to tune the flame. This method has it's benefits as you can adjust the atmosphere in your forge chamber. This type burner shouldn't need choke adjustment dependent on fuel psi. either. If it does your outlet design is perhaps too close to the limits of your inducer/mixer/etc.'s operational limits. Jay: Without having the knowledge and experience to judge information you run a serious risk of info overload and it's a vicious cycle. The more you read the more confused you get so you read more and it only gets worse. I've done that, there are some projects I started researching that are probably forever on the shelf because I read more than I should have. This is the main reason we chant the mantra to, "pick one set of proven plans and follow it." Do NOT mix and match features until you've can build working burners. There things that only YOUR eyes and ears can tell you. Only experience can really tell you what something means and what's most likely causing it. I still get fooled and more often that I like. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 Thank you frosty I didn't realize how much I was overthinking it I have been leaning more towards a t-burner design over the ribbon burner due to the inexperience I have with propane burners after my research today. I actually just finished watching a YouTube video on a guy that referenced you and your design with his build. I have just heard and read about such high praise of the ribbon burners it's hard to overlook their plausibility as an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Uh. . . Yeah. My ribbon burners are driven by Ts. I use thread protectors rather than a flare on my T burners and welded thread protectors to the plenums as through fittings so I can screw any of my T burners to a ribbon to test. All my previously built T burners are stable from stop to stop on my regulator when screwed to a Ribbon burner plenum. The orange dragon's breath has diminished as the refractory, Kastolite 30, cured. You can see the Ts behind the forge body. My insulated mug stayed about there for a good 6 hrs during the meeting. I was drinking Iced tea, the cooler is a little farther back. The outside of the mug didn't get much above room temp that close to the forge. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 I was under the impression that the flare tip was necessary if it wasn't being used with a ribbon burner. I think I need to read some more about basic burner design since I'm still figuring out the whole idea of propane set ups. Honestly I wish I could find blueprints and cutaway views of everything assembled idk why but it helps me with figuring out basic design and tolerances. I've considered buying a burner online but I feel I will learn more by building it than buying one. Are there any reputable YouTubers you guys would suggest as far as build and tuning videos. I know how hard it is to trust what you see on YouTube now compared to a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 The flare burner nozzle started out as a misunderstanding maybe 30+ years ago. I was reading industry sales pamphlets and patent drawings back when you could read such things without having to wade through endless "suggestions" from marketing software. We were messing with different plumbing pipe burners and I mentioned the mixing tube should be tapered outwards at no more than 1:12 ratio. Ron Reil and someone else I can't recall the name just added a flared end and it improved performance making them more stable and easier to tune. Since then folks have assumed a flared end is a must. It's sort of an urban myth but they do enhance performance. I keep the T burner more or less as it is because it's as easy to build as it gets for a reasonably effective burner. I met that goal so except for a couple improvements making it easier to build I've left it as it is. Except a couple minor changes the design is at least 30 years old. The thread protectors I put on them is mainly to make mounting them easier. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay.bro Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 I actually was curious if a threaded splice joint pipe would work to thread onto the end would create enough of a size increase to be beneficial as well as making it so it could connect to different shaped ribbon burners for different applications of use and different sized forges. I know it would be a minor size increase at the end but I don't know if it would help much at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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