Opinions on my first forge

[qazzarelli]

I have finally built my first forge. I am from georgia south of atlanta btw. I started with an old gas can. Cut an open front. Lined it with double high temp kaowool at like 1inch each layer i believe. Then i coated with castolite and laid firebrick (yes they are the thicker and not so soft brick but they have held up on a couple long burns so we will see) on the bottom. My first home made burner did well. It was a 3/4 black pipe with 1 1/4 to 3/4 reducer and mig tip pounded into the screw on cap. It works pretty well but i placed it to far back. So i rigged another one up and now it seems to far forward dang it. I had to drill a hole in the closer one to the front to get more air. It was smelling rich but that seems to have helped. Now i have blue flame kicking out the front. Any opinions on my build would be appreciated. Seriously let me have it. I need to close the front up more and i am thinking refactory cement the bricks in the front to close it up so them blue flames will quit kicking around the front side to close to my burner for my liking. The second burner is closed up hence the need for popping a hole in the pipe. I have both on a 0-30 regulator. Any mistakes you can help me with to improve would be great. Anything i am not thinking about..

I need to take a pic of it running but did think about it till after. I have 1/8 brass connecting the burners. Seriously only issue i have is closing off that front sinve burner is too close and blue flames are dancing out. Can i just refractory cement the bricks on the opening to close it up? The flames seriously scare me bouncing out around that front burner. 

[Steven511]

It seems all good, you must have done your research. The only real problem is that your propane-oxygen mix might be a little off. First, if flames are getting out of the forge far enough that you need to worry about your burner, you are probably running too much fuel. Plus, if your flames are blue all throughout your forge, you probably don't have enough oxygen. It looks like you are using an atmospheric burner, which usually has a problem with that. Try letting more air into the burner, and turning down your propane.

Do know that all my advice is based on my own experiences about two years ago so I'm pretty rusty, and if anyone contradicts me they are most likely right.

[qazzarelli]

Right on thank you. I knew something was up to that extent.(i had a carburetor on a car kept running rich on emmision test and could smell fuel.) Of course with my first time forge and i smell heavy propane while it's burning made my rectal pucker just a little bit. I am a paramedic that has worked with fire and i know where just simple grill fires can turn out. Anyways i did pop a hole in one of my 10 inch pipes and tried again and it seemed to concentrate the fuel more and smell wasnt so bad but still flames coming out. I will try to oxygenate the other pipe and see what happens. I can always swap the pipe out again or use a sleeve to cover if its too much. I just heard about oxygen, scaling, and the such and perhaps went to far the other way. Can i get away with cheaper or should i say lower rated refractory material or mortar cement to close up that opening a bit? I wanted it open more for bigger projects but realize i dont need so much my flame comes out. I worry i put the second to close to opening trying to fit in in.

[Frosty]

How about instead of trying to reinvent linear burners you follow plans for proven burner? Wayne Coe's site has plans and there are a number posted in Burners 101 as well as the gas burner section of Iforge. 

But in short, NO drilling holes in the mixing tube isn't going to do much good. Your intake bell reducers are too small, the jet mounts are blocking intake air significantly and your burner tubes are too long.

I'd start over but make notes of what you did so you don't make the same mistakes again.

Lose the hard fire brick floor it'a a major heat sink and has the insulating properties of an equal thickness of lime stone. 

You will benefit from doing some reading in the Forges 101 section of Iforge as well.

Your shop skills look good even the mistakes are well made, you just need accurate information to produce a forge that works well. Honest, take it from someone who's made most of this batch of mistakes and am offering you the benefit of mine so you don't need to repeat them.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mikey98118]

 

This may seem a little off-topic, but you're first photo is showing two things I generally don't like to see on forges: the burner is aimed straight into the shell; and secondly the burner is positioned close to a 45 degree angle in consequence. HOWEVER,  instead of the burner impinging poorly on the forge's floor, it looks to be positioned quite well. I think things worked out this way because the inside of your forge is actually "D" shaped--not tunnel shaped.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

21 hours ago, qazzarelli said:

I am from georgia south of atlanta

We won't remember this after leaving this post, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show your location with every post.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/

That thread will help with getting the best out of the forum.

[Frosty]

It is a vault (D) shaped forge Mike, the bottom is full of hard fire brick.

Frosty The Lucky.

[qazzarelli]

Well i appreciate the input. On the possibility of being blasted i thought longer tubes allow the air and gas to mix. Would a shorter tube still allow the mix in time? Also when i popped a hole in the one pipe it seemed to give me a more of a blue sharpened flame. Is that producing better results than a fatter flame? And yes i know about the heat sink and all in the fatter bricks. It was all i could get to stand the temp for a floor at the moment and left my self some room to pull them out when i can replace with something better. Was thinking maybe kaowool on top of brick with refractory coating on that. I figured ot make the area smaller that i am heating and stop the heat from sinking into the brick. So for now i kaowooled under the brick to stop heat from penetrating and loosing out the bottom. Even if it only works for cooking pizza in the end i made it. I will thumb through the already made burners ya got and see what adjustments i can make. The firefighter/paramedic/boyscout in me just loves to adjust and see what happens anyway.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Now if you would edit your profile to show your location, we won't have to harass you for it when you ask a question that requires knowing your location to answer it.

[Mikey98118]

18 hours ago, qazzarelli said:

Well i appreciate the input. On the possibility of being blasted i thought longer tubes allow the air and gas to mix. Would a shorter tube still allow the mix in time? Also when i popped a hole in the one pipe it seemed to give me a more of a blue sharpened flame. Is that producing better results than a fatter flame?

The longer mixing tubes will allow better mixing, but at the cost of slowing and weakening the mixture flow, What burners need is the right tube length for that particular burner; not too short and not to long.

Your flame  description indicates that, in this case, "popping a hole" helped. But making the mixing tube length correct would help more.

[stevomiller]

First I applaud your work and get it done approach.

As for the burners, I can appreciate you wanting to make them work as opposed to switching gears to a truly known good pattern.

Adding the hole did improve your burner, for now anyways. I for one am concerned with how far it is from the point the gas jet enters, and that under some circumstances (forge doors closed, strong winds, etc) that excessive back pressure in the forge could allow some fuel mixture to exit said hole. If you look at burners DESIGNED with slots or holes in the tube, they are nowhere near where you have yours. Just MY thoughts, not claiming I’m right and impending doom.

Folks here don’t recommend the Frosty or Mikey burners out of rabid fan boy devotion, it’s just that they work VERY well and are proven in many shops. Additionally, if you follow the patterns exactly, you probably won’t need help fixing or adjusting them. 

BUT IF YOU DO, then you have not only the designers here to help, but also many other members who’ve built and run the exact same burners.

Best

Steve

[qazzarelli]

Yeah. I was think the same thing about the hole and flame and safety. I have gone and sold a smith and wesson of mine to help fund a better burner set up. The set up i have works, gets hot, makes the steel workable but i have no knowing of how much propane i could be saving. I looked at the burners 101. I am no engineer by any means but i was working on an emergency responder budget with 2 little ones in diapers. I have decided to keeo the other 2 i made for back up, and i am gonna try the tee burner set up. I could purchase but i have to have my hand in it cause thats just me. 

*I separated this cause i want the experianced to at least read this for me. I have with reciept, ha ha, for two 1 inch tees, and two 8"x1" black nipples. Gonna drill a hole in the top of tee screw it on nipple and set up my mig tip with an extension piece through the top of the tee. The piece will screw into my 3/8" or so connection going to flow valve that i have already. Mig tip will be slid extremely tightly through the piece giving me my jet. Gonna sink it in roughly past the tee holes. Hope that explains but i dont have pics yet since i havent made it yet. Now should i connect the 1 inch nipple to a 1 inch floor flange or through a bigger pipe with set screws. Does it need the air pulled in around pipe or should is the flange which would cut the air at forge body? I am worried lots of heat will work up the nipple. If not floor flange then should burner make make its way into the forge level with refractory coating and kaowool or is that to far in? Should i put a bell and open burner up right before it enters forge? I have seen each way but instead of flange it is usually welded and that i dont have access to. Only issue is most dont show a good picture of nipple once it enters the whole. Giggity. 

P.s. i do listen i swear. I have removed the fire brick from floor. I have layered an inch and half of ceramic wool instead which gave more area in forge so i will have to see how the dimensions change my flame also. I am stuck now just waiting on mail man to bring my wool coating and another bag of refractory. Cant get it locally that i can find and the wait is killing me. Lol. Thanks again guys. Fingers crossed it gives me heat with out blowing through the propane to get hot.