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Will42805

Meeco's red devil refractory cement

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I'm planning on using meecos red devil refractory cement after rigidizer my 3 - 1 inch layers of inswool htz. Has anyone else used this and how well did it work. I've come across a few reviews online of people who have used it for forges. Most of them seemed to go pretty well. It states that it's rated for 3000 degrees. And it $11 for half a gallon it's pretty cheap. Just wondering if anyone else has any experience with it. Thanks

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It's cement not a flame face rated refractory. Its used to cement various refractory materials in furnaces like fire brick tiles, etc. It is NOT intended to live directly in the fire. It's 3,000 f rating is as a mortar between bricks.

You can buy small quantities of Kast-O-Lite 30 from an Iforge member Wayne Coe for reasonable. He'll even help you determine how much you need. This Kastolite product has a working rating of 3,000f and is intended as an uncoated flame face refractory. It's a castable high alumina meaning it's pretty impervious to forge welding fluxes. Last but not least it contains evacuated silica bubbles primarily to lighten it but it also improves it's insulating qualities. It's not Kaowool by a long shot nor even light fire brick but it's in an entirely different league for chemically and mechanically TOUGH STUFF.

It's the current consensus as the most economical efficient hard inner liner for propane forges.

Frosty The Lucky.

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3 hours ago, Will42805 said:

Are there better Alternatives that deal better with flux or would this be adequate?

By "this" you mean . . . ?

Our recommendation is KastOLite 30. Its a water set, high alumina, castable bubble refractory with a working max temp rating of 3,000f. EMAIL Wayne for specific help building your forge, as I said earlier he breaks bags and rolls of materials down to quantities appropriate for building ONE forge and is very reasonably priced.

Perhaps I wasn't clear in my previous post in this thread.

Frosty The Lucky.

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Got it. I'm starting to think too much information is a bad thing. Better to stick with the tried-and-true methods. Thanks for being blunt

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Don't sweat it Will, everybody wants the best when they're breaking into a new craft no big deal. Folks who read a lot can get just as caught up but are more likely to pay attention. I'm a constant reader have been  since I was small I'm known for information overload and passing it along to others.

Wayne will take good care of you.

Frosty The Lucky.

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On 4/7/2018 at 6:37 PM, Frosty said:

It's cement not a flame face rated refractory. Its used to cement various refractory materials in furnaces like fire brick tiles, etc. It is NOT intended to live directly in the fire. It's 3,000 f rating is as a mortar between bricks.

You can buy small quantities of Kast-O-Lite 30 from an Iforge member Wayne Coe for reasonable. He'll even help you determine how much you need. This Kastolite product has a working rating of 3,000f and is intended as an uncoated flame face refractory. It's a castable high alumina meaning it's pretty impervious to forge welding fluxes. Last but not least it contains evacuated silica bubbles primarily to lighten it but it also improves it's insulating qualities. It's not Kaowool by a long shot nor even light fire brick but it's in an entirely different league for chemically and mechanically TOUGH STUFF.

It's the current consensus as the most economical efficient hard inner liner for propane forges.

Frosty The Lucky.

What if you use ITC-100 coating on the Meeco's? The Meeco's has ceramic fibers already added in for reinforcement, which seems like a good thing.  Not that you couldn't add in fibers to the kast-o-lite, but it's nice that it's already pre-mixed.

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Welcome to IFI... Have you read this yet? READ THIS FIRST  As to your question no Meeco's Red Devil is not a hard faced castable refractory but a cement and ITC-100 adds nothing to the strength. However if you are intent upon using it, instead of listening to those who have been building propane forges for decades, go ahead and report on your experience with it.

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ITC-100 isn't really intended for use in forges, it's a kiln wash for ceramics kilns and as an ablative wear face in larger furnaces. It's main purpose is as a release agent to prevent ceramics and glazes from sticking to kiln furniture and flame face bricks, same in large commercial furnaces/kilns. It doesn't actually fire, it remains pretty dusty and rubs off after a while.

It is about 70% zirconia in various grades depending on what you buy but the binder doesn't fire hard, it remains pretty chalky. There is a mythconception about IT'S and other high zirconia containing kiln washes, that they are RI reflectors. Zirconia is NOT an IR reflector, it is an IR  "RE RADIATOR"  Meaning it doesn't conduct heat terribly well and being as heat doesn't conduct through it very well it absorbs and holds the energy longer and so gets hotter. It then radiates IR in 3 dimensions, It can't radiate into the layer lining the forge as it's equally hot and radiating right back. Radiating away from the flame face is into your Meeco cement. While a good kiln wash prevents the high temp chemistry that makes a propane flame so destructive, we're talking about ITC-100 and that doesn't fire into a gas tight surface. This allows SOME propane flame and combustion byproducts through and in contact with the Meeco, at higher temps than usual.

Kastolite is a high alumina 3,000f refractory with an enhanced insulating value. It is actually good enough to not need a kiln wash or any other protective layer between it and the flame. However a good kiln wash will enhance performance in a couple ways: First it's a strong re radiator because it's such a poor IR conductor so the wall of your forge will get hotter and heat your work faster. Secondly a good kiln wash fires hard like a ceramic cup and most things don't stick to it very well so you can clean the goop more easily and it's more resistant to scrapes and gouges. 

Frosty The Lucky.

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