Jclonts82 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I have seen @ThomasPowers refer many times to Band Saw Blade & Pallet Strapping. BSB PS. Yesterday I acquired a good length of BSB, today I saw next to the railroad a piece of what I think is pallet strapping, not sure. Its a tad rusty, but it might be usable. Heated it to bright red/dark orange and quenched in cooking oil. Clamped it in a vice and it broke with the lightest tap of small hammer. Actually more of a shatter than a break... 3 pieces came off that end Would this be considered useable to layer with the BSB? I will probably cut into 4" strips and trim width to match the BSB, which is only about 1" after teeth removed. Make a stack about 2.5" thick. Lots of layers to begin with so only have to cut & stack once for a higher layer count. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 All depends on what you are using it for. All pallet strapping is not the same, some is high carbon and that is better for knife billets. The lower carbon is fine for decorative items. I just found out that the folding bread baskets at work use AAR 33 strapping in the sides as support. That is high carbon strapping approved by the railroads. So I am now stripping the supports out of the busted baskets when I see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Yup if it "shattered" after an oil quench it definitely won't drag the average carbon content down much! Note that if you plan to weld the billet to hold it together. Weld only one end and wire tie the other, (baling wire, rebar tie wire...) If you arc weld both ends then when the piece is heating before the weld the outer layers will bow out and can collect crud as they are expanding more and faster than the inner layers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted November 13, 2017 Author Share Posted November 13, 2017 Solid advice! Thank you. I would have welded both ends and maybe bead across the middle, that likely could have run me into some problems. On my next projects I will run 2 billets one of BSB/PS, the other 15n20/1095 and get a good comparison for how they behave, weld, move etc... It will be good for my own experience. Also, the more forge welds I can do, the (hopefully!) better I will become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 My student was nudging me about some very thin transformer lames I was thinking of using with some BSB, as I recall very low carbon and high silicon. I have some large sheets of it I may use as a "buffer" layer between alloys that don't like to weld to each other. Very nice of him to sort and organize all the old billet leftovers and future billet supplies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted November 17, 2017 Author Share Posted November 17, 2017 Time to start cutting, cleaning, and stacking. To get the rust off, I did a test with a 1" section that was left after cutting the blade into strips. Left it in 50:50 vinegar water overnight and all the corrosion was gone. it darkened the steel too, I may not need to leave it in so long, but proof of concept. I will take an angle grinder to the stack to get rid of whats left of the teeth too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 I always just clean up pallet strapping with a sandpaper wheel on an angle grinder. Shine up the ps BEFORE cutting it into pieces, it makes it a lot easier to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted November 19, 2017 Author Share Posted November 19, 2017 On 11/17/2017 at 9:38 AM, Will W. said: ...Shine up the ps BEFORE cutting it into pieces... That advice is WELL received. I had 2-3 pieces i cut to size to test, cleaned those then the large strip... large strip was much easier than the individuals. Alternating stacked, angle ground the teeth off, welded a handle on. Gonna get brave tomorrow and see if I can forge weld it up. 39 layers! Video I took of an impromptu spark test. Mild steel vs the pallet strapping. (Used the mild as a fence to score a line to break the PS from 2" to 1" wide to match the BSB) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 18 hours ago, Jclonts82 said: That advice is WELL received. I wish i could remember which fellow member gave me that advice, and credit them. I cant remember my name most days though lol. Good luck with it. And for flux sake, take it easy on the blower. Those thin layers on the outside like to burn up way before the core is even close to hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 It welded no problem. I figured the outer layers would do that. I just pulled it in and out over about 20 minutes until the middle got some good color to it. All while slowly increasing the forge to weld temps. I started heating at a lower temp for that reason. In previous Damascus billets I would only do 3 welding passes, because of so many layers I did 5 to be sure, I will draw to 3/4" square, then round. Next I'm going to build a twisting rig that attaches to my newest vice on a stand and plan on twisting about 10 full rotations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 It was going to be a bowie, but after twisting and grinding out the little valleys that (for me anyways) invariably form plus and cutting off 2" from the end that I twisted too cold and it tore, there was not enough steel left. I, with my skillset, couldn't widen out enough for what I had in mind... So a dagger it is! This pattern is just after the quench, no etch yet, just oxides from heat and air. normalized 3X at 1650, then at 1600 then 1550. Then held at 1480-1500 ( as close as I could keep it there and evenly heat the whole thing ) and quenched in vegetable oil at 120F. Tempered at 400 just once and off to the grinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 How's the hardness for you? When we want to experiment or play around we make small billets---half the length of our standard billets as we cut the coffee can stored stock in two. Welds easily as you can do the entire piece in one welding heat. Then if we like what we are getting it can be used as the outside layer for a san mai blade, or blade fittings. We call these "fun sized billets" and it's what I usually start a new person on when they get to that point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 11 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: How's the hardness for you? It skated a file, not nearly as well as other steels I have used, but quite well compared to the tang that went un-quenched, so I guess it hardened up well enough. Plus it wore out a new silicon carbide belt (4X106 wet grinder) by grinding the bevels (4, sheesh, I thought getting 2 to be even was tough) and fine tuning the general shape. Seems hard enough to me, not the best, but certainly good enough for ... the girls I date... gov't work... insert snarky comparison here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 For a higher carbon content I'll add in some pieces of old Black Diamond Files from back when they were using 1.2% carbon for them and let that juice up the blade---particularly useful when you will be doing a lot of subsequent welding that can drop the C some. Or use a piece of a file for the center layer for the last weld to get a high C edge. Dealing with the thickness difference can be a pain or a nice design aspect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jclonts82 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Great idea for future reference. Since I didn't fold or restack it probably barely retained enough carbon to harden. I thought about adding 1-2 strips of 1095 the same thickness but decided to leave it as is... and all free materials. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Could always try brine....I'd test it first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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