Can you use artest grade zinc white for canister damascus/ pattern welded steel

[Beatsy' s Forge]

     Does anybody know if you can use artest grade zinc white for coating the inside of the canister prior to adding your desired materials. I am asking because everything I've researched has said they use white out for this and I am curious about the use of artest grade paints or just pure zinc oxide pigment that you could mix to ge your desired consistency. I know from experience that the better the artest paint the more pure the pigment, but you can also get pure pigment and mix it your self. IMO if artest paints/ pigment will work rather than white out you could get more product and a more pure zinc oxide white that would be easier than buying multiple bottles of white out.         

     If you try this I suggest you use only water-based /acrylic paints. Oil paints after all are flammable. Also remember that the better quality the paint the stronger the pigment so this is why I was thinking of the dry pigment which would make it possible to get a desired consistency. 

[Steve Sells]

the white out was mentioned due to its availability, there are also cost effective ways to prevent sticking of the can, why spend the money on extensive artist paint?  Why do you think that would be an improvement to use more toxic zinc ? also why are you worried about oil based being flammable ?

I should note that Titanium Oxide is what is used in my white out, not Zink Oxide.

[SLAG]

Mr. Bsty,

Artist grade oil paints are a cheap substitute grade of oil (& acrylic), paints. The more expensive studio or professional grade of paint has a lot of pigment, or metallic pigment in them. The artist grade has as much as 60% of their composition consisting of metallic soaps. Zinc stearates, zinc oleates etc. (read: very little zinc content).

You would be better off making up a mixture of zinc oxide in a water suspension. But zinc is potentially toxic.

So try the more opaque titanium dioxides instead. (some art supply shops may carry it). (I make my own chalk pastels with it). Titanium dioxide is more stable, and widely used. The paint and wall paper stores may carry titanium dioxide pigment in the can. Titanium should be very inexpensive.

Good luck with it

Yet another example of "Better Living Through Chemistry !!"

SLAG.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Well to answer a post the white out is used for the zinc content to help the canister not adhere to the bilit so I had the idea of useing artest grade paints didnt think it was a wise idea to put a flammable paint in an almost closed canister but what do I know.I was just suggesting caution. To the other post that suggested titanium white didnt think of that but it may work.I just thought Id ask if anyone tryed it rather than white out. Yes I know zinc is toxic which is why people use white out? I mean whats the difference either you use zinc inhibited white our or you use a pigment or you could fight your way to the prize by grinding your XXXX .Either way this was a question not ment for an argument thanks for the replys. 

 

Thanks for the post didnt give much thought to using titanium pigment I wss going on the assumption that all used white out so thanks. I will give it a try.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

You vaguely mention other cost effective ways to get the job done so what are they and to answer the question why would i worry about flammable paint being put in to a canister,Well for one was just suggesting caution especially on account oil paints take longer to dry than others and id be concerned about using it. Yes i know zinc is toxic but honestly whats the difference if you use white out or paint ?I was just curious if anyone used it before and what was the out come.

[ThomasPowers]

"but what do I know" if you don't know perhaps not posting on it would be a good idea.  

A typical thing to do with a canister weld is to give it a shot of WD40 or oil to be an oxygen scavenger; both of these are quite flammable.

[SLAG]

Mr. Beatsy,

I forgot to mention that you may wish to improve the adhesive (stickiness) property of your titanium-water mixture by adding a little adhesive in the water solution. You could use a little gum Arabic, or guar gum . Simpler and cheaper would be just a little table sugar dissolved in the solution.

Titanium is not particular toxic as zinc is.

Also. the mixture (solution) should dry shortly after application.

The water is not toxic as the white-out solvent might be

. But there is very little of it to be worried about.

SLAG.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Ive canister welded both with flammables and without and have had the same effect. So I choose to not use flammables it seems to not have made a difference on the out come besides if your canister is full and you leave a pinhole dont you think the oxygen will get burned off. Im just saying it hasnt made a difference for me. 

Thanks for the help slag It will be interesting to try I know it will be a far better cost effective way in the end.The gum should work nice I will give it a go.

[Steve Sells]

I should note that Titanium Oxide is what is used in my white out, not Zink Oxide. and I add Wd40 to burn off any left over air in the can.   that is why I wondered why you care about oil base being flammable or not

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Thomas 

I was being sarcastic, I say its not necessary todo.Ive had the same success rate without adding any combustibles.So I was thinking if you dont mention it .Well what if someone put to much ? ah, pipe bomb .Just saying I dont think its nessasarry to ad flammables to your package....

Steve

As stated it realy dont matter to me I just dont use it and dont think its nessasarry and maybe the oil paints may burn off making it not as effective as acrilic because of the drytime.I mean you want the coating dry first right.

My white out does have zinc oxide and not titanium. Well I  didn't know there were different kinds of this.Interesting

[ThomasPowers]

Well I've done blister steel making in a pipe filled with powdered charcoal and sealed.  Ran it over 20 hours at a good red with no difficulty so flammables != pipebomb in some cases.  Most folks that use them can see the burnoff from a pinhole in the welds.  Once case, at a Quadstate, we had too good a welder and the cannister actually popped; not much excitement and the demo went on without a stop.   Heat treating in metal foil often makes use of a strip of brown paper as an oxygen scavenger.   It may be that some alloys profit from it more than others; just like in open fire forge welding some alloys need very aggressive fluxes.

[Beatsy' s Forge]

Thomas 

Well ive never had the excitement of a popped canister but to be frank I just found for me and what im using it isn't nessasarry for me.To add I agree with the HT and paper it helps as far as I can tell.Have you ever used (cant think of the name ) for limiting scale in the HT?

 

[ThomasPowers]

The coating stuff?  No; If I'm really concerned I heat in a muffle with powdered charcoal on the floor.  Of course I am generally heat treating plain steels; the ones needing ramping and hold times I generally have done for me by folks with inert atmosphere furnaces.