February 4, 200818 yr Dirty as it was just found sitting in a body shop unused for years. Needs a good clean up but its all there. And i need to build a stand...Bob
February 4, 200818 yr Shaping machines are probably the most underestimated machine available to the blacksmith. They can perform many complex machining operations and will happily use homemade cutters.
February 4, 200818 yr I'ld spin the vice round 90 deg before you use it what do you intend using it for? - in my experience the reason they sit unused for years is they are not very versatile at all. I had a lovely decent sized 'ALBA' and it went to the big recyclers in the sky They are handy for cutting dovetails on very small hammer die blocks (slowly) One hint - dont over tighten the stroke adjustment clamp when you use it, then when the tool digs in and jams (which it will) it will slip, and save the tool / workpiece smashing.
February 4, 200818 yr Shaping machines are probably the most underestimated machine available to the blacksmith. They can perform many complex machining operations and will happily use homemade cutters. name a few bob , other than skimming die block dovetails.
February 5, 200818 yr name a few bob , other than skimming die block dovetails. Simple gear cutting Cutting internal and external splines on driveshafts Fettling operations on castings Machining rack and pinion gears Cutting shoulders or making deep grooves T-Slots Dovetails You can even machine curves if you are clever. There's a good reason that many machine shops have a dusty shaper in a dark corner, they do jobs that mills can't and you can make your own tooling without the help of a cutter/grinder.
February 5, 200818 yr Simple gear cutting Cutting internal and external splines on driveshafts Fettling operations on castings Machining rack and pinion gears Cutting shoulders or making deep grooves T-Slots Dovetails went back to dovetails there ! - Im a pretty good machine operator and getting a small shaper to even skim you a flat face is tricky and time consuming enough (with tool push off and drag) they are good for internal keyways if youve got an angle plate. Im just not convinced of their use in a blacksmiths shop. sorry.
February 5, 200818 yr I could make just about any type of powerhammer die or hydraulic press die on a shaper. I could do the same on a mill easier but would need to spend more on cutting tools. A shaper is a versatile tool for performing 'one off' operations to blacksmithing levels of accuracy.
February 5, 200818 yr Author The vise is loose from when i carried it in. I have about 100 small gears to cut. I have tooling to cut internal keyways. I had a 32" shaper but it was just way too big . I will find lots of things to make to go with my lathe's. I will post some more pics as i go...Bob
February 5, 200818 yr Nice grab Bob! Hey John, Just a few questions. 1). What's wrong with the vice in that orientation? 2). not being sure of you background with powerhammers, what is your definition of a "very small hammer die block"? I'd have to agree with Imagedude on a lot of points. For the 140ish dollars I spent on mine, and about 30-40 dollars worth of cutters from the 'Bay, I've got enough to cover probably 80% of the BLACKSMITH related machining I need to do. No I am not going to try to plane engine heads with it, or try using it to machine something with 0.0001" clearance. I am using/plan on using the shaper mostly for jigs, dies for my IrnSrgn style guillotine tool, stuff like that. For that stuff, 0.01" is fine, 0.001" is a thing of beauty. Imagedude: "blacksmithing levels of accuracy" Can I get permission to use that for my signature line? I love it. -Aaron @ the SCF
February 5, 200818 yr The vise is loose from when i carried it in. I have about 100 small gears to cut. I have tooling to cut internal keyways. I had a 32" shaper but it was just way too big . I will find lots of things to make to go with my lathe's. I will post some more pics as i go...Bob hey bob - I would class that more as machine shop work ! from my experience they are a tricky machine to get to do much other than very light skimming. Even with well ground tooling, and the machine set up as rigid as you can the tool will still 'push off' for the 1st 1/4" of the cut, requiring multiple passes to get semi-flat. Any metal tougher than Mild steel causes even more problems. I class a small die block as less than 4" along the dovetail. The orientation of the vice is usually set so the work cannot be pushed through the jaws (ie the cutting load should be into the jaw). Perhaps they are just not for me!
February 6, 200818 yr Hey John. Thanks for answering the questions. As for the die block I am guessing you mean what can be done with the particular shaper shown here. I haven't tried it (and probably will never have a need to) but I am almost sure my 14" Walcott would handle a 12" long die block with a little patience on the operators part. I asked about the orientation, because when cutting die stock for my IrnSrgn style guillotine tool, I have the vise jaws parallel with the ram stroke. I've been cutting 10" of 3/4x3" HR die stock at one time (putting more or less a tenon on each edge), as I find taking a 10" stroke is easier (and faster) than cutting each 1" thick piece separately. I then just chop off however much I need for a particular die from this longer piece. Anyways, I was worried that running the vise oriented like that might be doing some harm to the machine I wasn't aware of. But with the total area of the 8"x2" jaw bearing down on the workpiece, I think I have enough of a grip to prevent much . Thanks, -Aaron @ the SCF
February 6, 200818 yr Author hey bob - I would class that more as machine shop work ! The orientation of the vice is usually set so the work cannot be pushed through the jaws (ie the cutting load should be into the jaw). Hi John, Yes the metal should push against the jaw when cutting to save it from sliding out. And yes it is more machine shop work that is alot of what i do when i am not welding or bending metal. In the winter i work out of my basement that is where all my machines are because it warm down there with my boiler heat where my shop is cold right now because i have the heat off, my gas bill is high enough. You just need more practice making big pcs into small pcs. I had a shaper that would cut 1" deep on a pass but you would have to slow the feed way down. I know my little guy won't do that but it will do what i need done...Bob
October 5, 200817 yr Author Here are a few more pics. I had to build a stand which took 5 weeks because of time problems, then i had to rewire the machine since the 60 year old wire fell apart along with the vee belts. It runs great and i would bet it was hardly used since new.
October 5, 200817 yr I haven't seen one of these since high school. We always seemed to have to use it at least once in every project that was assigned. I know there are better machines now but it was sure useful then.
October 5, 200817 yr Nice job! I like my little Alba shaper I rescued from the scrapyard. Shapers have been replaced by more advanced technology, my Saturday morning job was making ratchets for pit prop pullers when coal mines had wooden pit props, these could not easily be done on other types of machinery, now they could be laser cut quite easily. Very satisfying to use, and versatile, had to cut some internal keyways the other day, and I would have struggled without it.
October 10, 200817 yr Gooday Bob , They are a fascinating machine to watch operating . Does the bench have to be real solid as there is a lot of movement in them ? Well done ! you have got a terrific tool . kind regards , Alan.
December 19, 200817 yr Shapers are fine tools.i love the sound of raw power moving metal.set it up right and 3/8 can be nawded off.let it have its way while you get busy doing other stuff.
January 20, 200917 yr Author Here's a little job i did today on the shaper and it turned out perfect. I made an ER40 collet chuck years ago for my lathe and i never put wrench flats on it, until today...Bob
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