First project

[Steve Meyer]

Hi, Im Steve.  Just wanted to share my first little project and ask for a bit of advice.  Sorry if its a thousand time repeat question.  It's more of a judgement call kind of question.  I'm working on some more beginner friendly projects now little things to help learn to draw out the metal.  But first thing I've tried is a knife.  I want to widen the blade a bit but when I try it kinda just pinches the edge.  I'm trying to work it down from the top to the cutting surface but maybe that's not the way to do it?  I spent around two minutes doing a bit of clean up just to see where I'm at and I,m thinking of leaving it be cleaning it up and getting it ready for heat treat.  Just wasn't sure if I should try to bring the blade down or leave it be? I started with a normal HC stamped RR spike squared the head off a bit to hold it easier, then cut the head off later when I was ready to flatten the handle.  But anyway thanks for any advice.

[DSW]

You need to learn how to spread metal in a specific direction by using the peen on your cross peen hammer. Leaves are a good simple project for learning to spread material. Taper the end of a piece of square stock, then use the edge of the anvil to isolate a piece at the end by the taper and use your peen to spread the material to the sides. Leave a ridge of thicker material down the center. This would be similar to a double edged knife. When you can do that, do the same thing, but spread the material only to one side.

[Steve Meyer]

Thank you I will work on that and leave this until I can do that. Or just start another one. Without a metal supply store anywhere around. Would it work to flatten down a RR spike into the proper size for the leaf? I have around a hundred of them and a ready supply.

[DSW]

I can't really see why you couldn't. It's not really much different than standard 5/8" square bar with the exception of the head. 5/8" is a bit on the thick side, but there's no reason the bar has to stay that size. It's just more work to draw it down to say 1/2" square or whatever. If nothing else it's more practice on the basics.

If you have a good supply of spikes, why not? Most prefer to use spikes in a way that shows what they originally were, even if the steel they are made from isn't all that much better than mild steel. I guess if I had an unlimited supply for free, I wouldn't be as choosy about what I used them for myself.

[Dick Bromberg]

Knives are a poor choice for first project, you'r setting yourself up or frustration/disappointment. 

A better choice would be to practice making tapers on the end of a bar. A square taper on the end of a square bar. A round taper on the end of a square bar. A square taper on the end of a round bar, A round taper on the end of a round bar. 

So where do you get the square bar ? Remember the hundred railroad spikes ? If you cut off the head of the spike then you have a square bar. As DSW noted you can use the 5/8 square R spikes and you can forge them down to smaller cross section, like 1/2 inch by 1/2 inch or i/2 half round before you work on the tapers. 

RR spikes don't harden very well, even those marked HC.  I did an internet search (Google)  for   " what does HC mean on a railroad spike" . The carbon content is somewhere between .2 and .3 percent carbon on spikes marked  HC. That's not much better than mild steel. 

There are a number of sources of "price is right" steel, Machine shops (ask about drops), steel left over from their work. Automobile repair shops, particularly spring and suspension repair shops for leaf and coil springs, axles, sway bars, etc  . And finally any shop that makes railings and fences. Don't forget to show them  samples of what you have made and a wheelbarrow to bring the steel back home. Try to avoid rebar.

[James William McDowell]

1 hour ago, Dick Bromberg said:

Try to avoid rebar.

I'm new to blacksmithing. I've only been doing it for about 6 months. Why would I not want to use rebar? 

[DSW]

Rebar is often "mystery metal" made from remelt scrap. It is made to meet a minimum standard tensile strength and not much else. I have had some bar that is hard and some butter soft, and even some that are hard in some spots on the same bar and some that are soft, and that's simply working with it cold doing concrete work. Rebar has it's uses, mostly for reinforcing concrete. The surface texture lends itself to things like snakes, but it's a very poor steel to forge with on average.

I've had good luck managing to find old railings people are trashing for stock. There's usually a bunch of nice lengths of 1/2" square bar on them, but you have to take a grinder and cut all the welds. I've also made friends with a small scrap guy who goes around and collects steel scrap, then sells it to a bigger scrapper. Some times I'll go over to his small yard and look to see what he has collected, and I've asked him to let me know if there's something I might be able to use that he finds.

 

[Steve Meyer]

Well on the bright side I'm a mechanic, we have a large pile of leaf springs and coils. The RR spikes were meant for practice. I can order some steel but didn't want to get ahead of myself, spending money to much money on something I don't know how to do. I do see the importance of the tapering practice and will start doing that.

[JME1149]

Steve,

Leaf spring and coil spring stock is going to work differently than mild steel such as the spikes. My suggestion is to keep using the spikes or other cheap/free sources of mild steel for hammer practice. Draw the spikes out for tapering practice as mentioned above, use them to make leafs for spreading practice, make KSO's to practice both skills. If you work at one skill at a time it will be easier to make adjustments and see improvement rather than bouncing around all over the place and not knowing what is going wrong or how to fix it.

Heat, beat, repeat, and have fun while doing it. Find someone close by you can watch and learn some basic things from also helps a lot.

[Steve Meyer]

My first thought was to find someone or a group but that hasn't panned out. I will do as you suggest I already have the piles of RR spikes. But yea learning is slow going. Especially buying tons of charcoal and not getting anywhere.

[ThomasPowers]

I get my steel from A a local small scrap yard and B a Windmill Repair and Construction place that's happy to sell it on the side as they get a better price buying it the larger their orders are and C a Steel supply place where I am buying it by the 20' stick (for about the same price as buying a 4' one at the Big Box Store...)   I see a process problem already "buying" charcoal?  Does your local high school or church group have bonfires where you can arrange to get the leftover charcoal?   When I use charcoal I generally build a fire in a raised fire pit and then shovel hot coals into the forge---in fact I built a shovel out of gravel shaker screen so I can shake out all the ashes and small bits before bringing it to the forge.  I like a separate fire as then the forger doesn't have to deal with the smoke and excess heat as burning the wood to charcoal in the forge throws off.

[Steve Meyer]

So you just throw wood on a fire and use the charcoal as it burns down? Is hard wood best for that?

 

[ThomasPowers]

Well I have always considered "free wood" as best and prefer it in sizes that don't take a lot of re-sizing to use.  You can build a charcoal retort and pre make it as well; but I get by on the make it as it's needed.  For smelting I generally sieve the ashes from my wood stove all winter to get a load of charcoal to do a bloomery run.  You're over thinking this; charcoal was the fuel used for smithing for over 1000 years; coal started being used for smithing in the high to late middle ages---"Cathedral Forge and Waterwheel" Gies & Gies, and charcoal continued in use as a smithing fuel to this very day---traditional japanese swords were forged using charcoal!

[Steve Meyer]

I'll give this a try I have a ready supply of mesquite but nothing in the way of hard wood. I already have a fire pit beside my forge.

[arkie]

Steve,

That mesquite is better put to use in a BBQ!!!!! 

[ThomasPowers]

depending on where you live Mesquite may be the most common tree around!  It is certainly the most common wild tree where I am at with Pecan being the most common domesticated tree.

Now the mesquite charcoal sold in 40 pound sacks from Mexico is much better for grilling than for forging as it is usually not fully charred (so it provides mesquite flavour) but tends to throw off more forge fleas and have more resin pockets in it.

[Steve Meyer]

Im in north Tx. Mostly mesquite here.  But where I can actually get wood back home at my dads ranch there is tons of pecan. I'll be down there working cattle in the next couple of weeks and could fill my pickup bed with either one.  Just all my reading led me to believe that mesquite wasn't a great source for forge usable charcoal.  I've just been buying 15 pound bags of hardwood charcoal, its a bit expensive and burns fast.  I've also looked for a source of some sort of coal but not much luck.  I'm in a small town with not much around.

[arkie]

Steve,

Have you checked into the Saltfork Craftsmen Artist-Blacksmith Association?  They are Oklahoma-based, but have groups all over Oklahoma.  They sell coal but to members only.  They might be closer to you than some of the Texas blacksmith associations.  Google for the link and you can read some of their newsletters.

[Steve Meyer]

TY for that suggestion.  my wife has family in Tulsa and there seems to be meetings there and in Ok city.  as well as Elk City which is only an hour and a half away from me. I'd prefer to find something in Tx but its a big state and most everything is a long ways off.

[ThomasPowers]

Back when I lived in Central OH, SOFA was a 2 hour drive each way so we got up a group of smiths to carpool and made a day of it---stopped at a good fleamarket on the way and had pie from the FFA booth went to the SOFA meetings and rolled home and a good time was had by all.  Sometimes the way you find out who's local to you is to ask around at meetings and see if they know anyone down your way.  (I still remember getting ready to pay US$25 for a 4" postvise in great condition only to be pulled over by one of the other guys and told "don't pay $25 for it or then he will want $25 for all the ones he sells"  So I offered $20 and loaded it up...)

[Steve Meyer]

A 2 hour drive isn't bad at all really.  But Ok city at 4 and Tulsa at 5 start stretching it a lot.  I think I may join and try to attend the one in elk city on the 23rd.  I feel like I can take advice here and watch the way certain youtubers use their hammers and practice at my little setup outside and get where I can do waht I want.  I'm a mechanic I build cars and motorcyles as a hobby as well, Ive done some stock removal knives in the past.  so I'm fair with my hands.  But someone showing and helping me figure some things out would save me a lot of time trying to watch videos and figure it out.  Or at least that's my theory lol.

[James William McDowell]

I just made my first set of flat nib tongs out of rebar. I basically use them for making tools. They where given to me. Sine they won't make good knives, they'll make starting tools as I learn the craft.

[EricJergensen]

The closest coal pile is on the east side of Norman, OK. Probably a 3 hour drive. Coal is $.07 / lb, members only. You'll spend way more on gas than coal no matter how much you get ;-).

[Steve Meyer]

true it would cost more in gas than coal.  But if the trip was also to visit mine or my wifes family it would work out to my advantage I imagine.  I have a aunt in OK city and a Bio father in Ada, and her family in Tulsa  And all of that is closer than the closest place to meet others in TX.  The coal Im not to worried about,  meeting and getting to watch or talk to people who know what they are doing would be nice.