Jorn Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Hello all,with this I would like to introduce myself: my name is jorn I am a blacksmith and I'm new to this forum.I also had a question about a power hammer that I am revising. It is a beche LV4 which is a period of time unused. The problem is that the valve is stuck. Have any of you ever had this problem? Or does anyone know a way how to tackle this?Kind regards,Jorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I don't know the Bêché valve system. One of the good things about air hammers is that as they are air tight they are reasonably water tight as well and so they only seem to suffer from rust on the exposed surfaces even if left outdoors for protracted periods. I am fairly sure that Christoph Friedrich's (in Sennwald in Switzerland) air hammer is a Bêché you should be able to track him down by internet search and he may well have experience of the valve.If you post a few pictures of the hammer and valve the brains trust on here might be able to identify the valve principle and procedure for stripping. You may even get a fellow Bêché owner chipping in if you are lucky!Have you searched for a manual, handbook or parts list? I think Bêché are still in business have you been in touch with them to see what help, parts resources they can offer?Good luck, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Welcome aboard Jorn, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.I see Alan beat me to posting while I was writing so I deleted my inexpert ideas. Alan's suggestions are much more practical than my musings.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Good Morning, JornMy experience with seized Machinery and Air Hammers is to be patient. Lots of Kerosene, Diesel or Penetrating fluid, then slowly try to move the component part. A little (sometimes more than a little) tapping with a soft Hammer, may start to break it free. Sometimes it may take a few hours to free it up. As a last resort, use heat. Never use a long bar to force it to move (something will break). Patience, Patience, Patience!!What part of the world are you breathing in? If you post your location in your Avatar, there is probably someone fairly close to you that can help with suggestions.Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorn Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 Thanks Allan, Frosty and Neil for your advice. patience still seems to be the solution. tomorrow I'm going to cool the valve with nitrogen to try to get more space for the penetrating oil.I am breathing in from the Netherlands, it is high time to change my avatar.Jorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 If you remove the bung above and the plate below, do you get access to the valve body? In order to get some penetrating oil further along the valve...any access plates on the other side?If you take the cylinder heads off can you get some oil onto the valve through the air ports?A good thing is that it doesn't look too rusty...Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Krause Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The plug above the valve allows access to an airway toward the center top of the valve. If you still haven't gotten it to move, take that out and get some kroil or other good penetrating oil in there. The valve to sleeve fit is very precise and just a little rust or even old hardened oil will stick them. And, self-contained air hammers are NOT water tight and can be easily damaged or even destroyed by being left outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) The plug above the valve allows access to an airway toward the center top of the valve. If you still haven't gotten it to move, take that out and get some kroil or other good penetrating oil in there. The valve to sleeve fit is very precise and just a little rust or even old hardened oil will stick them. And, self-contained air hammers are NOT water tight and can be easily damaged or even destroyed by being left outside.ouch! I did say reasonably water tight.I am sure you right, it makes perfect sense. I only speak from limited personal experience. The residual oil protected the bores, bearings and valves on mine. The only thing that suffered on my 3cwt Alldays after ten years of out side was the electric motor. The tin sheet over it did not prevent the condensation getting in. According to the rewinder it may have been rescued had it it been dried in the rewinder's oven. Sadly even after a ten year storage wait because the electrician didn't turn up in time we could not risk it not working because the "Grand new forge big hammer warm up forge in" was scheduled for two days away and the guests were already arriving! £450 pounds worth of rewinding late it all worked first time. The 2cwt Massey was outside for nearer fifteen years and in an open fronted shed for an unknown time before that before it was opened up to reveal its oily blackness.Alan Edited June 17, 2015 by Alan Evans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Krause Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Clearspace Masseys being the exception to the rule, Ha! They run on an almost entirely closed system with the only venting to the atmosphere taking place inside the frame. They are even air tight to the extent that if any of the gaskets under the cover plates in the upper part of the frame are compromised, the hammer wont run properly. I would say that one of those fine machines could spend most of its lifetime outdoors and as long as the rust were removed from the ram and the oil supply in the foot was replenished, would function perfectly.I have recently been servicing a Nazel 3B that spent only one winter outdoors and suffered great damage, the Beche is much more similar to a Nazel than a Massey. I've also been working on a 6B that is so stuck from being outside that I haven't been able to remove the heads or valves even after months of soaking and gallons of penetrating oil. It's just a little too large to try to heat up. Edited June 18, 2015 by Mark Krause Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 snip... It's just a little too large to try to heat up.Hmmm. It doesn't need much heat, just enough to make a differential and crack the bond. I have had success when assembling interference fit bearings by popping them in a plastic bag and dunking them in a pan of boiling water on the stove. I know ideally you want to heat up the hammer frame or the journal rather than the cylinder head or valve spindle, but just warming either would crush the expanded oxide and maybe release the element…If a giant propane or rosebud torch is not available I wonder if a tea urn full of boiling water (or if there is a recess in the cylinder head an electric element out of an urn and leave it bubbling) poured over it might just expand the head enough to break the seal..or even to suck some penetrating oil into the joint afterwards as it cools...They used to wrap sacking soaked in something... Wax? Tallow? Lard? set fire to it in order to heat up and expand the tie rods they put through buildings when the masonry/brick walls started to bulge. Heat 'em up, drop in the cotter pins/wedges on the outside of the walls (often with a big plate washer or joggled cross bars to spread the load) and let the contraction heave the wall straight. Interesting problem…luckily for me mine have all come apart relatively easily, touch of heat maybe but usually just a copper hammer tap, sorry that doesn't help you though! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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