champion riveter forge ?

[Robbie J]

I have just gotten a riveters forge and was seeing some smiths have sand or some kind of clay or dirt in the cast iron bowl making a funnel looking slope to the tryere is that to have a more of a consentrated fire area?  any help would be great thank you  .  Rob

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Rob, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance.

Claying a cast iron rivet forge pan is in reality to shield the cast iron from a large local heat differential. Cast iron is brittle stuff and having a small area a lot hotter than the rest can invite it to crack then break. A layer of clay or similar disperses the heat so the casting doesn't have one hot spot in the center. Sure it's warmer but not really HOT.

Dirt, sand, etc. does the same job but nicely rammed clay doesn't get on and in the iron you're heating. No need for any high tech refractory either, just plain old garden, pond, etc. clay works fine. You don't want mud or it will shrink check as it dries like mud in a dried out pond. Just damp enough to squeeze into a hard lump is perfect, spread it and hammer down, a wood mallet is perfect it till the mallet bounces and smooth it off. You're ready to rock.

All that said, there are downsides to claying a forge pan. If you use much water to control the fire it can collect under the clay and speed the rusting process. Same if you don't keep it covered in the weather. If it gets wet, clay will turn to mud. It can be more PITA than help but protecting a cast iron pan sort of hits the top of my priority list. I have a nice cast iron Buffalo rivet forge that's cracked almost all the way across, through the air grate. When I got it there were plenty of fire marks around the air grate to show it'd been used unclayed. It also has "Clay Before Using" cast proud in the pan.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Robbie J]

Thanks Frosty my son and i went to a hammer in at Lund Blacksmithing in Hazen North Dakota. These days its hard to get teenagers off the phone ect... well he took to it so we are getting set up looking for stuff but not very many want to part with any tool that were there grandpas so they sit and rust away never to hear the ring of the anvil agein.

So if there is any one out there willing to part with a Hammer head or tongs they are willing to part with? My Son and I would love to know . email   robbiesirena1987@gmail.com

Thanks looks like a great group on here.

Robbie J

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if there are is any body willing to sell some hammer heads or tongs 

[crij]

Robbie,

Welcome to the world of blacksmithing.  90% of the time I use riveting forges, I have yet to line one of them.  I have had 3 over the last 10 years.  One I bought cracked (oblong Buffalo) which I am repairing as I find the time during the summer (to minimize the cracking as it cools), one was a Champion 400 that I replaced the stock rotted welded pan with a 20" skillet from Cabella's, and my current one is about 1/2 the weight of the champion, which is why I sold the champion to another smith.

There are 2 main reasons I never use clay or refractory cement.  Primary is that Coal ash is acidic, and gets trapped between the lining and the cast iron, any condensation turns the ash into sulfuric acid.  Secondary is that I don't have a shop so I have to travel with the forge so any liner would get knocked loose.

I have yet to get a really hot pan as the heat rises and I splash water onto the outer ring of coal/coke to concentrate the fire over the tuyere (air hole).  As long as you don't douse the fire with water you won't crack it, I have had water sizzling on the pan surface under the coal, but it was from light splashes of water, so the water was warm before it touched the metal.  At the end of the day, I just pull the coal away from the tuyere and wait 15-20 minutes (either jaw jacking or packing up), till I can place my hand on the underside of the pan without burning myself, then it is safe to douse the remaining coal, which I store in a galvanized bucket (not a water tight one) until the next use.

Have fun and keep striking,.

Rich C.

[Frosty]

Rob: You want to network with smiths within reasonable distance of you right? That is exactly why I suggested putting your general location in the header. Someone within 15 minutes of you might have some basic tools they're willing to sell or lend you IF they knew you were in the area. Maybe they'd rather teach you and your son to make tongs and a hammer or two. Neither is terribly hard, tongs are beginner projects and hammers only moderate skill level projects. Being invited to someone's shop and getting direct instruction and help on the project is far more valuable than the tools themselves.

Every hour you spend with an experienced smith is worth days or even weeks of effort trying to figure it out yourself. Online help and books are good but NOTHING beats having someone telling you what went wrong and why.

We're having a tong work shop in a couple weeks and a hammer workshop in July. Catch a plane, I'll pick you up at the airport. The details are in the Alaska sub forum near the bottom of the IFI front page.

Frosty The Lucky.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Concentrate on the basics ; fire, something that acts as an anvil, and a hammer. The hammer is the easiest to obtain since they are still making plenty of them new, and there are tons of used ones out there for cheap at garage sales,a and fleamarkets  Tongs are a good starter project, and with longer stock you don't need tongs at all.