Michael Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Finally got around to remaking a header the other day. My original, on the right, made 6 or 7 years ago, with a crooked, asymmetrical hole, slams into my hand when I put the head on a nail. Numerous mods haven't helped. First attempt at this I tried to screw a Grade 8 bolt into an undersized hole in an orange hot handle, to cut threads. That didn't work, not sure where I got the idea it would. Even after filing a notch in the bolt threads, the hole in the handle ended up polished, not threaded.Second attempt with a Grade 5 bolt, (didn't have a tap that would fit the Grade 8's) screwed in to a tapped hole in the handle stock. After drilling a stepped hole and rounding the top of the bolt on the grinder, got the bolt hot and drifted the hole square with a teeny tiny punch made from an old sharpening steel. Quenched from red and put a loop on the handle.The threaded end of the bolt that sticks out under the handle is a loose fit in the pritchel, and the high dome of the bolt head seems to make it easier to center the nail head (80% of my nails have L shaped heads, despite my best efforts). Having just figured out to pivot the header around in the pritchel after the first blow might have something to do with that as well, but this new header sits flat on the anvil which is nice, and doesn't jump up to poke me in the palm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Those'll work but you're over thinking the tools. Just drive a little dome in the stock over the prichel and punch the nail hole from the same side. Square it if you wish. It's bouncing and hitting you because there's a little curve between the handle and the header so it rocks on impact. Just put a LITTLE negative curve to it and it'll stay put. It'll always bounce a little but you can minimize it.You're making picture hooks, NOT nails. The audiences at demos are always impressed when I tell them how hard it is to make little picture hooks like that. <SHEESH!>Only leave 1.5 times the diameter, standing proud for the head, make the cut as symmetrical as you can and use a light hammer, a 10oz. is more than enough. Hammer control is all important, you have to drive the hammer straight down through the center of the nail, any deviation and it'll bend away from the blow.Once you have the head driven to the header flip the hammer and use the ball pein to spread, texture or fancy it up. People expect hand forged nails to LOOK hand forged even if the nails from the day were as finished and uniform as the nail maker could make them.When you're finished heading dip the point of the nail in water, it'll chill and shrink making it easy to pop out of the header.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Frosty, I have to ask, just how big are the pictures you're hanging?These "picture hooks" are still an inch and a quarter long, small enough to be useful in the shop for nailed together projects.I may be overdoing this for some simple little nails, but every time I light the forge, I make a few nails. Just about the only thing I make a lot of, other forging projects are all over the place. Trying to make them well has become an itty, bitty personal goal.thanks for the tips, nice to know the little ball peen I've been using is appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan the blacksmith Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 those are beautiful! my headers keep braking, and I really want to find one of those old, cast iron headers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) I'm not so good making nails and sometimes folk at demos want to see nails made so I do. The heads often bend over rather than spread like they should. Telling folk how hard it is making picture hooks so fast is just part of the show. I put enough inflection in my voice and give them a theatrical wink to let them know I'm joking. I don't lie to the audience but I do tell tall tales and maintain a fun patter.Ethan: Where have you seen a cast iron nail header? I've never even heard of such a beast.My headers are forged from or to about 3/16" thick that will cover the prichel hole. I then heat it and use an old ball pein and lead mallet to drive a dome in it. Then I punch the nail hole from the inside of the dome leaving a tapered hole with the narrow end at the top of the dome. I flip it over and gently taper the top just a tiny bit. The top taper gives the hot nail plenty of area to seat against and seeing as it's getting smaller it stops the nail nicely. The longer taper from the bottom to the narrowest part means there is very little of the nail in contact with the header so the header won't draw so much heat. Once headed a quick quench of the nail shaft lets it pop or fall right out.Frosty The Lucky. Edited April 3, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Ethan I can't imagine a cast iron header that would perform as well as a smith made one! Cast iron is MORE brittle and LESS flexible than good steel! Try one made from leaf spring or heavy coil spring! I have worn out a few headers, but NEVER broken one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan the blacksmith Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I have always loved old books on blacksmithing and steam engines. I have an old book that has a cast header in it somewhere but don't quote me on it, I'll go look it up.it is a faint memory. and maybe I was mistaken, it could have been cast steel or drop forged!brain fart... I never thought of a spring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Okay, that explains a lot Ethan. Authors frequently write about subjects they don't actually know much about. Someday you will see something in the paper, a magazine or a book you are familiar with and be slapping your head at the misconceptions and outright mistakes in print. How many times have your read somthing about forged cast iron? Cast iron doesn't forge worth spit if at all.My bet is the author didn't know the difference between a closed die forging and a casting. Or he wrote the first thing that came to mind while he was writing, we all do that, especially if we're on a roll. It's what makes editing so much work and a good editor worth gold.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan the blacksmith Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Thanks frosty. funny you mention bad authers, editors...as i mentioned before, I am a steam engine enthusiest and have run many. One day I was at a steam show and I was being interviewed by the local newspaper, because I guess 13 year old boys in to old suff is rare... Anyways, they made many mistakes in the article, but the worst for me was that I said that it can take as much as 2-3 hours for the boiler to heat up but they put 23 hours in the newspaper! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 They must've been using a crock pot for a boiler. Yeah, you have to learn how things sound differently to the listener than to you. I can see how the interviewer could think, two't three might sound like twen't three, especially if there was a breeze.Do you do Demos? You'll run into this at demos too so you learn to keep it simple and speak clearly.I'd love to take a ride on a steam engine, running one would be a blast but I really don't want to be the pilot on a locomotive.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan the blacksmith Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Still a kid. Have alot to learn.I'LL post some pics of a header that i'll try to make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 WE all have a LOT to learn, nobody lives long enough to learn more than a sample.Going to be a locomotive pilot some day?Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan the blacksmith Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 it would be my dream to be the engineer on a big steamer! it is a lot to work towards, good thing I have already started! for now I am quiet content to run the local steam tractors at shows. in fact, we have our own threshing show in September, and of all the tractor this one is obliviously my favorite! 1912 Sawyer Massey steam tractor. this machine built America! (I am siting on the tender as fireman...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 That's very cool Ethan, I envy you more than just a little, live steam is a rarity up here.I was ribbing you with the pilot on a locomotive thing, it's a trick question. On steam locomotives the "pilot" is what folk who aren't RR folk call a "cow catcher" or the first wheels that get the engine started on a turn. Being young expect RR folk to ask trick questions to see how much real interest you have. I've only done a little reading and I don't forget what I read so I remember things like the pilot and what a oh say a 2,4,2 is though I don't recall the name of the last wheels.Next time some wise acre asks you if you want to be the pilot on a locomotive you need to have a response on tap. Mine goes like this, "No, the cows come in on their own at milking time." Tells them you know at least a little, they like a good comeback.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan the blacksmith Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 I believe the last set behind the drivers is called the trailing truck?(again, a faint memory) And ya, I figured it would be hard for me to turn into a bright red, wood thing on the front of an old 4-4-0 American.hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan the blacksmith Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 (edited) have you ever heard of the big boy locomotives, they amaze me! steam traction engines only take 2-3 hours(on a warm day) to get pressured up. these locos can take all day or more!but back to the nail headers... Edited April 5, 2015 by Ethan the blacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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