Propane forge blower q's..

[RainsFire]

I am looking for a good design of a venturi driven blower that I can reach welding temp with easily..
this is mainly for making damascus so ya, It needs to be hot..
I've looked at the ones in the Blueprints, but they don't really look like an improvment over the one I have.. which leaves alot to be desired.
anyway, anything would be helpful.. I've checked out the reil blowers.. and dont feel like burning the cash on a t-rex one.. but ya, thanks guys.
immages of your personal blowers would be more than helpful if you feel so inclined..

Happy thanksgiving!!

[Jmercier]

Why not just go with a blown propane burner? A single blown propane burner will take a fairly large size forge to a temp hot enough to melt steel if you want it to, and will weld at 2 to 3 psi

[Dodge]

Thought you had that solved, RF. Built properly, the Ron Reil "EZ burners" will reach welding temp. I use a version and my only limiting factor is that I used too thick of a liner on my shell, but I do get weld temp

[RainsFire]

I honestly haven't found to many good designs for a blown burner either.. but I really would prefer a nice silent venturi blower..
either way I want to melt some steel..

Thought you had that solved, RF. Built properly, the Ron Reil "EZ burners" will reach welding temp. I use a version and my only limiting factor is that I used too thick of a liner on my shell.

I thought I had it solved too.. I'm just looking back on it again and really want to build something I can rely on instead of my ghetto rig that I currently use..
It seems to get to just below welding temp.. which infuriates me maybe I'll set it up for my beginner friend or something so he doesnt ever burn steel..

[Dodge]

gasser and silent don't go together. venturis are NOT blowers. They are BURNERS

[Jmercier]

My 2 venturi burner forges are acutally louder than my blown burner forge. Blown burners are increadibly simple to make.

http://www.tharkis.com/images/shop/burner.jpg

is a picture of hte one I use on my welding forge. inside the T is another pipe 6 inches long, capped and with a 3/32nd hole drilled in the center

[Dodge]

yes as a mater of fact, a local forge uses blown NG forges. They are quiet compared to my Jet engine forge LOL

[RainsFire]

hmn, thats interesting.. I guess I'll have to try one then, what do you guys reccomend for the "blower" portion? I'de like to assemble it tomorrow, so if something like an airmattres inflator, or hairdryer would work, that would be awesome..

thanks guys.

[Dodge]

Sorry. No blower experience here.

[matt walker]

Take a look here Ellis Custom Knifeworks in the forge gallery.
Lots of photos of mine. It has made a lot of pattern welded steel.
Matt

[brucegodlesky]

This sucker really cooks.
It's a variation built by Mike Sweany. His idea with the holes was to provide immediate turbulence and thus a better mix.

[standingwolf]

I have a forced air and a venturi the forced air burner is very simple to build andreaches welding heat easily

[RainsFire]

Where you been looking? Cause you must certainly be looking in either PEOPLE MAGAZINE or US WEEKLY, definately not GOOGLE the world's largest search engine, cause in two seconds a search on google produced EVERY bit of info you would need to build a blown or atmospheric burner. While i am all about helping, i don;t like helping those who DO NOT even try to search for themselves or let alone read up on anything.

really that post didnt help now did it? obviously I have done searches, I searched all the blueprints, and did a few google searches, I've gon through the elliscustom page a few times, and have asked a friend of ours for his design..
no, I have not looked in people magazine.. but thank you for your witty sarcasm..
I find that you apprenticeman, post incredibly un-helpfull posts with the sole purpose to down talk and infuriate their target..
so ya, thankyou once again..

anyway, thanks to the rest of you for real.. I'm going to try and base one off of the ellis custom page forced air burners..

Does it really help to have a verticle forge to reach welding temp?

[Glenn]

To all:
The site guidelines state that there will be NO PERSONAL ATTACKS. Please use caution when you post because if it degrades into a personal attack, you will be banned. Discuss the topic all you want, but cite references so the rest of us can read the same information, and learn.


To RainsFire:
I did a Google search on and got 811,000 for atmospheric burner, and 30,000 for atmospheric burner forge. Many of those pages refer back to Ron Reil Forge Design.

When you get your design completed, make a Blueprint and we can add it to the list.

[RainsFire]

right, thanks glenn.. I just get kinda tired of some of the repetitive negativities that show up every once in a while..

I searched for the wrong key words I guess.. thanks.

[Glenn]

No one in particular is thought of here, so no one get offended.

This is one of the more helpful sites on the internet. It is family oriented, visitor friendly, and a place you (anyone) are welcome to call home. It is a comfortable place to visit.

This does not mean you can not have disagreements, just reference your opinion with something other than an armchair argument. Show us a URL, some testing procedures and results, show us your efforts to prove the suggestions offered right or wrong.

When suggestions are offered, take the time to follow through and try things or research the reference. A new individual to blacksmithing always wants an anvil so asks where can I find one. It is a valid question, and needs a valid answer. This is the reason IForgeIron.com > Getting Started and IForgeIron.com > Lessons in Metalworking > Blacksmithing were created. (The path is used so folks can find the front page of the site and then find the reference without a hot link. Doing things manually makes take the path, as well as see other areas on interest along the way.)

There are some good gasser designs and then some other gasser designs. Until you build several different designs and play with each to find the unique characteristics of THAT design you can not choose which is the best (for you). Change one little thing and the whole design can easily be altered (from what others opinions have said)

I use coal. Solid fuel is easily obtainable here, is traditional as a blacksmithing fuel and doesn't go boom. My first forge was a brake drum, 2nd a break drum, 3rd a cast iron container (not ever intended to hold fire), next the Original 55 Forge, followed by several forge designs that failed, the Side Blast 55 Forge, next the 55 Forge with a Supercharger, 3 wheel (rim) forges so I could answer posts from experience, next I ran the Supercharged 55 Forge on just wood (not charcoal), made two modified fire pots to the 55 Forge with a Supercharger, and I am working on the next wheel forge design as well as running a charcoal forge (have 100 gallons of charcoal saved up). That is over 13 forges !! Each has it's own personality and heats differently from the others. Throw in 6 different hood designs, and 7 different blowers if you want. I have also used store bought forges but do not currently own one.

I use the 55 Forge with the Supercharger as a primary forge. It will do 90% of what I need. The original break drum forge is less that 4 feet away and is fired up any time I need big heat or am using long materials (scrolls etc). My favorite is still the cast iron fire pot forge.

Which would I recommend to you? Well now, what are you planning on getting hot, your experience, yada. yada. yada, etc etc and only then can use my experience to make a suggestion as to a forge that MAY work for you in your situation.

Back to atmospheric forges. Research the internet. Choose the forge you think best suits your needs. Build one. Use it and learn it's personality. Then build another design and learn it's personality. Then report back with your findings.

Look at Garey Fords Gasser BP0182. It is quick to build and should get you started. Garey is in the IForgeIron chat room and I am sure will answer any questions on his design. This should get you one working forge to play with while you take the time to contemplate the next design.

Reference
IForgeIron.com > Lessons in Metalworking > Blacksmithing

IForgeIron.com > Lessons in Metalworking > Blacksmithing > LB0003 Blacksmithing Forges

[mike-hr]

You may want to research ribbon burners. John Emmerling saw one in his neighbors glass shop, and has made a dozen or so forges using them. I spent a couple weeks with him earlier this month, it was difficult to not melt steel in his forges. He's written articles for the NWBA, CBA, and ABANA on their construction, I'm going to make one as soon as I can locate a bag of Mizzou castable refractory cement ( I may have to drive to the valley or get some trucked in).

[nonjic]

Rains, Ive spent a fair bit of time playing with venturi burners, and eventually came up with this one, however, its all custom made, and the effort doing it was not really worthwhile.

its smoking hot, but my forge seems to have been running a bit cooler last couple of times ive welded in it. My personal conclusion (your mileage will vary) is that they are a bit fussy compared to blown burners. (especially on the effort : reward bargain!)

if you look in the photo gallery at forgemagic.com ( under jymm hoffmans pics ) he has a very good, simple, no nonsese looking design for a blown burner. I think ones next on my list of to do's.

If the noise of the blower bugs you theres no rule that says it has to be in the same building as you!

As I understand the vertical forges don't get hotter, the principle is they don't have a floor that ends up eaten by flux, or a pool of borax mush like mine.

I don't think the rex / other burners you can buy are that expensive really, I just couldn't wait for one to arrive from the states so made one myself. If you weigh up how much gas you might save from a properly balanced burner it might be worthwhile splashing the cash??

regarding the 'validity' of the post, and finding information; - I think its a very valid question to ask, as has been mentioned when you get 50,000+ hits it can often be difficult to assimilate the information to a point you can use - some 'hands on pointers' from personal experience can be very useful indeed.

[Marc]

Personally, I like the hot spot. I don't make blades, so don't need the even heat. The hot spot gives me a tad more control over the heat area. Not as nice as coal does, but good enough. The concentrated heat gets the spot hotter quicker, and back to the anvil faster.

A friend of mine built a highly insulted forge using a glass-blower's ribbon burner. He put the steel in and waited a few minutes for it to heat up. When he looked in, there was just a puddle on the floor of the forge. He said it was a pain to clean out. I guess the only problem with welding in that one is knowing how not to get past welding temp :-)

[Rhrocker]

For DODGE. I need to ask you something, sorry I'm getting a bit off topic, but then again, maybe not: In one of your post to this thread, you mentioned that you may have put to many layers of kao in your forge. Actually, you didn't say exactly that at all, but something along those lines. I also have one of my forges on Ellis's site, I think in the second row under Robert Hensarling. It's a neat 12 x 24 with two T-Rex's. I also built a cart to go with it, which holds some hammers and tongs. (BTW on any of Darrels forge pictures, be sure to scroll down after clicking on the picture. You may find more pictures there, but it's not mentioned to do that in the instructions. I think I have about 4 or so photos with my forge).
Ok, so I got to thinking after reading your post about the over-stuffing issue, and I'm wondering if that's part of my problem. Don't get me wrong, I can get to welding temp in a hurry, usually about 15 minutes I'll be at 2,200F on my Temp DRO is about where I like to have it. But when I first built and lined the thing, I put in 3 rolls of kao, for a total of 6 inches overall in a 12" diameter pipe. My forge won't hardly work at all if I plug off one end, and even with both ends open (about 4 x 5) I get a yellowish flame out the ends, meaning rich. I've monkeyed with all the settings till I'm blue in the face, but I'm wondering if I need to re-line the thing with just 2 layers, and provide more space for the heat gases.

Anyway, that's my current situation with that kiln. I'm in the process of building a blown kiln using Ellis's plumbing, and soft firebricks. I think it should be a real go getter.
Robert