Stabilizing handle material.

[Backwoods Blacksmith]

As I have started making knives again, and looking at my supply of grip material [ various hard woods and antler ] I decided to try my hand at stabilizing.

After watching several videos I went with the hand vac pump method.

I cannot say that I was impressed with the results.

The wood used was very light in color and the elk antler, after cleaning, was pretty light.

I could not find any Min Wax wood hardener so I went with the Min Wax poly with a light oak color.

After roughing the scales to size and cleaning the antler, into the vac chamber.  After 1 1/2 hours the bubbling quit and I removed the material.  Wiped down and let dry on a rack.

Let dry for two days. It is pretty cool in the work room.  Fine steel wooled the antler. Not unhappy but not much color.  The scales , however, took no color, and would still soak up moisture.  I was able to add stain after shaping and sanding to finish.

If the wood was fully soaked with poly, how was it able to take stain?  And why did the stain not transfer?  The poly was well shaken before the vacuum was started and was shaken numerous time during the process.  I am sure I missed something, but upon review, cannot figure it out.  I am not sure what I expected, but it is not what I got.  Talking to another local knife maker that uses poly.  He seems to be satisfied.

Does anyone with more experience have some advise? :huh:

Thank you

 

[DSW]

Minwax makes a ton of different products, many of which I use at work, but not doing knives. I'm not sure which Minwax product you used. They make polyurethanes, Polyurethanes with stain integral to the product,  gel stains and regular stains just to name a few.

 

I've never had any issues with wood that would soak up water after a good treatment with their Polyurethane coatings. Mostly I use their Satin finish, but I've got a few cans of semigloss and gloss on hand as well. I will make a note that not all their products that are labeled similarly act the same. The gallon can's of the Poly take way longer to dry and leave a heavier finish than the quart cans of the same stuff. The spray cans dry even faster. From what I understand that's because the solids content on the gallons is higher than the quart cans and the spray cans have the lowest solid content and more solvent. I learned this the hard way when I had to refinish a set of steps that I'd originally done with the gallon can stuff. To get the job done within the time frame, plus the fact I didn't need a whole gallon of the finish, I used the quarts and it took a lot more coats to get the same final finish... I'd have been better off in the long run with the gallon can, After talking to the rep about my issues, he told me that the gallon cans are mostly for guys doing floors, so the solids content is higher than the quart stuff. He also inferred that the solid contents of the home store stuff by the same "name" is less than that which they sell to paint stores and individual retailers and hardware store. The lower solids level is why the home stores can sell the "same" stuff cheaper.

[homeshow]

Here is a recipe for your vacuum canister method of wood stabilizing.

1/3 each by volume
Minwax Wood HARDENER
93% isopropyl alcohol
Linseed oil

This recipe comes with a warning of beware of the fumes and us in a well ventilated area. I have yet to try this formula but I did get it from a trusted friend.

[DanielC]

I have just recently entered the world of wood stabilization. For the most part, it is pretty easy and straight forward to stabilize with Turntex Woodwork's stabilizing resin "Cactus Juice". Not sure if I am allowed to link the site, but its an easy search from the info I provided. I bought a vacuum chamber, and the resin from there, and ordered a Robinair electric refrigeration pump off of Amazon. So far my Buckeye Burl was a total success. After making sure the wood has < 10% moisture you can literally go from start to finish in about 3-4 hours. From there you sand it down like you do any professionally stabilized handle material, no coating of anything necessary.

 

This is my set-up running for the first time the other night (Increasing resolution helps seeing the bubbles):

 

 

And with some sanding just to see what it did (All I'd do from there is use a buffer to make it really shine) the pictures found below. Btw, these have NOT been wet down with water or oil.

[Backwoods Blacksmith]

Thanks for the advice and the recipe.  I looked at cactus Juice but prefer not to use the oven.

[DanielC]

Heh, its a low 200F cure for an hour. Boom. Done. Stabilized wood.

 

To each his own I guess.

[gearhartironwerks]

Cactus juice is a good option...for $100./gal. I use Paraloid B-72 which comes as a crystallized resin that must be dissolved in acetone.
It is used by museums to stabilize art works.
I use it in a pressure pot from Harbor Freight using an electric vacuum pump, then have the tank set up to pressure it to 30psi to force the resin into the wood. cost is under $200. for the pot/pump with HF coupons, and about $25. for the resin.
It takes several days to a week for the acetone/resin to dry out. using an oven would be a faster solution.
John
Gearhart Ironwerks

[DanielC]

I'm up to trying new things! I will also give Paraloid a try when I get time soon. I have all of the equipment necessary to give it a test, and at $25 not bad.

 

How do you treat your wood prior? Does it have to be <10% moisture content prior to the process? Or are you taking it from its ambient stabilized state and giving it a go? Have you also tried cutting a stabilized piece after the process in half and seeing if it will take a stain at the center? And lastly, does the wood after the process sink or swim?

[gearhartironwerks]

I don't dye or stain prior to stabilizing. The wood needs to be around 10% or less moisture content. I bought a $40. moisture meter to check it.
I think the key is to not rush the process. I use vacuum and air pressure to force the resin into the wood, alternating each over several days in the pot. That being said, I don't know how the big boys do it, and they're probably not saying. A local blade smith uses dye in his cactus juice. I met a wood stabilizer who dyes, then dries the wood prior to stabilizing. Pick your poison...
I put the scales in a can in the pressure pot and cover them with the acryloid/acetone mix and weigh them down with a piece of steel on the top. The vacuum at first causes the mix to be aggressive and spillage happens inside the pot, so it's a must to check the liquid level covering the scales and keep them covered with liquid.
Truth be known, it is probably more economically sensible to buy stabilized wood, but I just like doing the whole process myself and the control/satisfaction that comes with that. I think that's what this forum is all about.
John Emmerling
Gearhart Ironwerks

[Steve Sells]

Nelsonite

[homeshow]

Truth be known, it is probably more economically sensible to buy stabilized wood, but I just like doing the whole process myself and the control/satisfaction that comes with that. I think that's what this forum is all about.
John Emmerling
Gearhart Ironwerks

That's why I make my own micarta, fabricarta, and papercarta. We both may be a little too quality control OCD :-))

[Bubbasan]

 

 

 Daniel , I just saw some curly redwood burl that was stabilised with cactus Juice . I turned out great and looked great.  Wonders never cease.

iwonder if its all really cactus juice?  sure did a great job..... James

[DanielC]

It's actually a Methacrylate Acrylic resin, just named cactus juice. Special stuff, otherwise known as Resinol 90c made by Loctite.

 

And with some sanding just to see what it did (All I'd do from there is use a buffer to make it really shine) the pictures found below. Btw, these have NOT been wet down with water or oil.

 

Was the redwood burl stabilized in a normal vacuum chamber, or was it put under extreme pressures? As far as I know, redwood requires 4000psi in the stuff to work since the pores are so incredibly tight, or dense, or whatever those little buggers do. This is of course what I have read and not based on actual trial and error performed by me. I do however have some redwood burl, and an additional chamber I have made that can take extreme psi. I might see how much weight is increased by just the regular vacuum and go from there. I built an additional pressure chamber for Walnut, since it will not stabilize under simple vacuum. I keep it under 150-200psi submerged in cactus juice after a vacuum treatment before I cure the resin. Gained 54% in weight with my walnut doing that, a shear success. Without the addition of positive pressure, I was gaining something like 5% in weight, indicating that it was not penetrating the wood. My pressure chamber can easily withstand 4000psi. It's just the danger of setting up a hydraulic system to get it to 4000psi that is the problem.

 

Sorry for the paragraph of chatter. I just wanted to mention it. Also, thanks for the reply. Tremendous respect for your work.