Dan C Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 This is my 2nd file knife with scales for handles. The first time I made a knife like this there was a tiny gap between a scale & the tang that was barely noticeable near the ricasso. This time instead of just clamping in the middle I used the vise and two sets of vise grips shown below and allowed it to dry like that for 24 hrs. Now I'm wondering if that was the problem. Sounds stupid to ask, but is it possible to clamp it down to tight and squeeze out the epoxy? What do y'all do to get a tight seal of the scales to the tang? After sanding down the excess wood (Burmese Blackwood) I noticed cracks between the scales and tang on the top tail end of the tang on both scales. The pins are 1/8" welding rod in 1/8" drilled holes, the epoxy I used was 5-minute Locktite. I did leave some of the file teeth on the tang but sanded them down to clean steel and had a good flat side on the scales against the tang.. I'm guessing the pressure wasn't even when the epoxy set, but now the question is can it be corrected and avoid this happening in the future. It does look like there's enough room in the crack to seep in some sort of liquid glue and the cracks will close either in a vise or if you squeeze it hard enough. If I can't fix it then I'll just keep it as a shop knife. Not always a bad thing to have something around that reminds you of your mistakes and what to improve on. Please let me know any additional information I might've left out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broomhead Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Yes you can clamp it too hard. The epoxy will squeeze out and leave an adhesive-starved joint. All you need is a spring type clamp to hold things in place while the epoxy sets for about 24hrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 As said you can squeeze too hard,,,I covered that in the knife making lessons,,,,I will not bug you about them anymore.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Please bug me cuz apparently I don't read things well enough the first or 2nd time, ugh! that and sometimes I just have to learn things by making mistakes. Any tricks for correcting them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 this might sound silly, but why did you go out of your way with extra clamps holding the blade vertically in your bench vice, when you could have turned it 90 degrees and lined up the blade parallel to the jaws of the vice and used them for even pressure down the entire length? (that is, of course, if the jaws are square) put a strip or two of soft leather, or something similarly squishy, to distribute the force of the jaws more evenly on either side of the blade if you are concerned about the aggressive teeth on the jaws, also will help mitigate over tightening and squeezing too much epoxy out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Not a silly question. I had started out in my post vise whose jaws are uneven, then I needed to use the post vise and moved the setup to the smaller vise (it's jaws are square). Also the pins at that point are still sticking out and would interfere. Thank you for all the feedback! At least now I understand what I did wrong. I'll keep it as a shop knife so I don't make the same mistake again (just a new different mistake) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Here's what you can do now. Squeegee epoxy into the gaps and let it set (no pressure). You will likely do this in several steps, at least once on each side. The glue will get everywhere but wait to do most of the clean-up until after the glue is set. Sand off the excess glue and smooth the handle. Next time do NOT use a 5 minute epoxy. The better epoxies are all slower setting. I have done this type fix on many projects... best to preempt it by getting a great glue up to begin with but i have a lot of complex projects and run into the need for a fix like this fairly often. This is but one of MANY strategies I use. If you need a color fill you can add a tiny bit of paint pigment to the epoxy as you mix it up (NOT paint... just pigment). In another life I was a top retoucher and finish repairman for high end cabinetry and some furniture... these skills are yet useful! For a small-job squeegee get a cheap spatula from one of the dollar stores... keep it away from the kitchen... you don't want it used for food after working epoxies with it (though wiping it down quickly with a rag and some solvent... lacquer thinner, will keep it useable for many jobs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 i have used spices and made colored chalk for tinting epoxy in the past, DEFINITELY run a test swatch first! turmeric, while a beautiful golden yellow in its raw form, made me almost blood orange color in epoxy :) now for the pins, if your vice is like mine (harbor freight) it has two large inset hex bolts in each jaw, which provide a huge negative space that will eat unevent bumps like that with no trouble (provided of course that they are spaced correctly, if not, the leather or some other suitably squishy material will conform to the surface of the scale and jaw faces and deliver a more uniform pressure distribution. you can also punch holes to match the pins in the leather layer that is in contact with the knife scale, or drill a set of holes in some flat bar and shim the knife on either side with that. if you dont want to/cant drill holes use 3 separate pieces of shim, left, in between, and right of the pins to give them enough space to not conflict. ill second bigfootnampa's recommendation to use the longest setting epoxy you can get ahold of, much better product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 This is great information on how to avoid this in the future. Thank you everyone again, it helps tremendously! Maybe other newbies will still this and not make the same mistake, or they will and see bigfootnampa's solution which I've implemented. And I love the suggestion on tinting the epoxy and using leather for the jaws, great stuff! I almost asked the question what type of epoxy is recommended, but stopped & searched. Here's the thread for that in case someone else is wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 This may have already been covered, but are you absolutely sure the tang is perfectly flat with sharp edges and the scales perfectly flat with sharp edges. Any degree in flatness will likely yield a gap in the glue joint. Also, any rounded or beveled edge can appear as a gap once its filled with glue. if both scale and tang edge has any rounding, the appearance is compounded. Hope this is helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Thanks Dodge, Semper Fi Devil Dog! Yes, I did verify beforehand that both the tang and scales were flat. I'm certain that the problem was caused by me locking it down in the vise or visegrips too hard and squeezing out the epoxy. Fortunately Bigfootnampa suggestion for applying more epoxy and Chinobi's suggestion for tinting the epoxy worked well, you can hardly tell that there was a gap. I ran out of finer grit sanding belts, otherwise I'd have finished it today. I'll post some updated pics tomorrow when it's finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 OOrah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Here's the pics, I'm very pleased with how the handle turned out, thanks for everyone's input on that! The blade's finish still need work. Right now it looks blotchy so I'll re-visit this thread to see about fixing that. I'm not looking for a mirror finish, but a consistent satin or shine. It is an improvement over my last file knife as I left the blade thicker prior to HT'ing in order to removed scale or imperfections. '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 nice job! looks very solid with nice lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 Thank you. I did notice a difference leaving it thicker and then having to do more grinding after HT'ing. Nicer finish, but took longer. Really provides an incentive to build a 2x72, using a cheap 1x30 HF belt grinder right now and doing it by hand after 120 grit. I now understand now the value of using a push stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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