DanielC Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Alright, so i recently tried my hand at bladesmithy, and gave the heavier tool making work some rest. For the most part, the forging came out pretty good, I was pleased. Being my first real blade, I tried to make it knife like as much as possible. The material I made it out of was an old pre-Nicholson Black Diamond file, said around here to be closest to W1. I Annealed and normalized several times before I hardened. Initially I clayed the knife, to give it a hamon. Unfortunately I did not follow directions and did not cure the furnace cement (Furnace cement with crushed fire brick mixture), and even after 72 hours of drying, it still started to recede and peel away once I put it in the forge. So I scraped it off, and decided to bring the edge as close to non-magnetic as possible, and quenched in Vegetable Oil that I pre-heated to 125F. I tried to only dip the edge, but the flames got to me, and I ended up dipping the whole thing in. No matter, I only heated the edge any way. Already having the oven set at 340F, I tempered for 2 hours. Still hand cleaning this blade up (have a few minute low spots that are a pain to work the entire thing down. Thinking about leaving them. Even after quick brushes after every heat, I still had some inclusion) with a diamond sharpening block that has 200/300/400/600 grits. I also bought 600 grit, 1000 grit, and 1500 grit sandpaper. Still working with the 200 grit to get it all even. Unfortunately only a portion of the blade edge hardened, as indicated with an overnight soak in Vinegar. Bummer. First knife, but still bummer. The oval piece of metal you see there is the guard that I forge into shape from 1"x1" Wrought Iron, that I plan to lightly etch with Ferric Chloride. Still knocking the high spots off of that after some filing. Since I recently had my first child, I am strapped for cash, so am working on making a handle out of material I have here. Its not pictured, but I have a chunk of Hickory that I cut roughly to size, and will try to stabilize it in the microwave I guess. If it doesn't work, i'll give it a few weeks and order some stable pieces off of the various knife supply sites on the net. Critiques appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtownAndrew Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 It is a bit of a challenge to try and heat treat a longer knife edge. You should be able to get it all on another try, maybe with some equipment tweaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilt and Hammer Workshop Posted March 13, 2013 Share Posted March 13, 2013 Very ambitous attempt for your first blade. What furnace cement are you using? It seems like 72 hours would have been plenty of time to cure. I use Rutland furnace cement for hamons, and I've been able to throw the coated blade in the forge with no issues after only 15 hours of curing. Getting a hamon can be really tricky though. Make sure the blade is absolutely,completely clean before you apply the clay. I use grease cutting soap and warm water. Also,it's a good idea to pre-warm the blade by the forge so there's no initial "shock" when it goes in. Hope this helps make your next attempt more succesful :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 Old blade that I was testing out Hamon creation. This is my first attempt and success with a hamon. Blade was an old Black Diamond File (Back when I was recycling these things. I now buy actual known stock), said to be most similar to W1. This was also the first blade I had ever forged. It is tanto-esque minus the tang (which will recieve some TLC). Blade has only been hand sanded up to 1500 grit. Am currently awaiting an order of micro-mesh from 2000 grit to 12,000 grit, and some 5-micron aluminum oxide powder to help bring out the grain. I used a few cycles of Vinegar and Lemon Juice to see what I had got. Was honestly surprised that it worked considering my clay did not fully dry before cure, even after being in a dehydrator for 4 straight days (It bubbled in several spots). To the oven they will go next time. Alright enough of that. Here ya go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loneforge Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Cool activity. Now get a handle on there and show us the whole deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 Will do. I am waiting for my vacuum chamber and cactus juice to stabilize some walnut, and think I will use that. Shouldn't be long. I have 5 other knives, including a huge cleaver waiting for some heat treating and handles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Daniel I know you did not ask but let me offer a few thoughts on this project. If you wish to remove low spots. do it with files,,will save you hours you would spend with other items. After normal filing then draw filing you can move right through abrasive grits as far as you wish. You said you had areas on edge that did not harden. i can guess why that happened based on your words on how you did it. When yoiu heat just the edge, ambient air, time and the remainder of the blade at lower heat will lower that heat below critical while you move to quenchant. Heat the whole blade and then quench. And I know this sounds very critical, you indicate you are willing to spend a lot of time and effort in completing this blade. All of that is wasted effort if heat treat is not up to the efforts. For me that minute I remove blade from quenchant I check with file and if all of the blade is not hard enough to skate a file I stop and take care of that first. Then I wipe and place in preheated oven. After temper I check again with file and it should not skate and should not remove metal easy. Or i repeat until it is correct. And if you have not looked I covered all of this in the blade making lessons on this site. It is nice to see someone as dedicated as you are to making a nice piece. Keep at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 Hey Rich. Your opinions on any project I do are gladly accepted. I have been learning blacksmithy only since the end of last year and your posts on this site have been used by me as reference material many times over. When I first forged that knife back in May I was desperate to see some of the chemistry involved in carbon steels that I rushed it at the most critical point of the build. I let the knife sit for months and have since expanded my budget. This afforded me more power tools and a lot more hand tools. I think my file collection would make some people sick. A lot has happened in the past few months and I am a better Smith than I was even then. I will heed your advice. I have since noticed bladesmiths that want differential hardening without claying the blade, harden the whole blade and draw the temper of the spine back with the edge in water. Much more effective and accurate. note: that is differential tempering, not differential hardening, just a termonology correction but other than that, spot on. I re-hardened the blade with clay and this time a 5 second quench in 120 degree water and transferred over to warmed oil. I actually just got done hardening another blade by the same methods except this was actual W1 stock and not a file. Its now in the oven at 350F. After I finished it I hardened a blade made from Aldo's 1084. Brought the entire blade to non magnetic range and quenched in warmed oil. It is also tempering in the oven at 350F. Both are kitchen knives. I will show them soon along with yet another 1084 blade, cleaver sized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted September 1, 2013 Author Share Posted September 1, 2013 So I have been trying my hand in Habaki creation. Not much time as of late. Another semester of school, my little girl is turning 7 months, and I've gone through 3 phones in the past few months! Ah well, found some time to build a work bench in my shop, and this... This was created from a slice off of 2" roll copper pipe (The malleable THICK stuff). Cut a 1" piece off and sliced it perpendicular on one side. After some trial an error, I managed to fit it to the mune-machi, and then brazed (Not plumbers solder) in the machigane wedge that I created with another sliver of copper. I had it perfect to the hamachi until I brazed it. This is where trial and error comes in. I realized I was too generous with the brazing, and it filled in the gap meant for the hamachi!!! After several attempts of heating it back up and scraping it out with poor results, I spent hours with needle files cleaning it out. It is now functional and with a little TLC, it fits on the blade. Whew. My only complaint now is the divots (To clean up the whole thing, I would have to file out those divots and the rest of the habaki to that level, leaving me with too little material I believe) that were left in the habaki during the initial brazing that were left by the vice grips. Huge mistake, and now I believe I will scrap this one as a learning experience and create a proper habaki when I get time again. Also, the wedge WAS invisible from the end view until I started heating it up trying to scrape silver solder out the other end. The heat allowed the solder on that other end to leak out just on that end it looks like. Either way, live and learn. Labor of love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Making habaki, I use bronze to braise and I use 1/4 inch thick material to start, so after I clean up the divots, correct the profiles and such and I still have plenty of thickness left after clean up. Yours still looks good tho. I also just added a termonology correction to a prior post of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Finally got time to create another Habaki. I am even editing video as we speak and will have it posted. This one here did not take as long, fits and looks better. I was also able to steer clear from divots, and this one cleaned up great. Only thing left is to either do a small engraving or leave it be, and to of course shorten its length a slight bit. Apologize for the slight blur on a few pics. And thanks Steve, not sure how that one got past me. Btw, I also noticed Jesus Hernandez using much thicker 1/4" to make his as well. Mine is somewhere around 1/10". Will need to place an order sometime on some plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 Nice looking blade, it looks like you got some really good activity in that hamon. You appear to be off to a good start on the habaki as well, you should really get the habaki to line up with the edge of the blade though. Aside from not looking quite right, it won't fit properly into the saya. You mentioned Jesus Hernandez's site, it has some good pics, as does "The Craft of the Japanese Sword" (Should be able to find it at your library, a "must read"). As for thickness of the copper, somewhere around 1/8" is good for a tanto sized habaki, I found a piece at homedepot, but what you have looks about right. Looking forward to seeing this project come together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Thanks Justin. If I get more time today, I do plan on lining it up. By the time I realized last night, it was already late into the night and was in the middle of closing shop. I have that book on the top of my amazon wish list. Didn't think to check the library in the meantime though! Heck, I have some 1.125"x1/4" 1075 ready to go for the next Tanto, but I refuse to lay a hammer on it until I have that book. My approach to this knife was "Find what I can online. Have a good time making it. Fill in information gaps with my logical way of doing it. Learn from mistakes." this being my first knife. Any Japanese blade I create from this point onward will have that book behind it that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Carnecchia Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 It is a very good first effort, I have to say much, much better than my first. Honestly I wouldn't have said anything except that it looks so good I think you can get it right with a little more work. Definately pick up the book, a very informative and interesting read, but don't be afraid to just start hammering too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielC Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 ^^^ Windows Movie Maker is terrible to work with btw. Will use Sony Vegas next time, lol. Be sure to set the video in settings to 720p at least. Wasn't fun recording and editing in HD to be viewed at lower resolutions. Thanks again Justin. Please be sure to check it out when its finished. EDIT: I also broke my post vice recently, so its a bit wobbly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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