Need help with LG 50# dies and tapers

[78sharpshooter]

I pulled both dies from the old style 50# little giant and when measuring the dovetail on the dies it does not appear to be tapered. I checked the dovetail on the block and ram and those are straight as well. The die key appears to be the only thing that is tapered. These might be original dies because both of them had the pin in the bottom still intact. I was under the impression that the die was tapered such that the taper of the die key matched and resulted in a parallel dovetail but this does not seem to be the case here. (is there a specific way to measure the taper on the dies?) I removed the dies with the intent to machine some new die sets (basically a dovetail that is just proud of the ram or block and tap holes so I can bolt in different dies as needed). Has anyone else found this?

[swedefiddle]

The keys are tapered length-wise and depending on how the die is machined, sometimes they are tapered width-wise. The taper in the sow block will hold the key & the bottom of the die down.

When I make a key, I forge it close to dimension and then heat up the tapered part of the key and drive it into the sow block and Die. Makes a perfect fit everytime. If the keys need adjusting because they are going in too deep, I cut pieces of metal bundle strapping and use it for a spacer between the other side of the Die and the sow block. Yes they get thinner with use but that expands your adjustment possibilities.

 

Neil

[macbruce]

A 1/8'' to the foot taper is hard to see in the grooves but  it's there. Worn reciever grooves make it hard to measure sometimes. Sid Sudemeier at littlegianthammer.com makes conversion dies for sale and has always passed on any info I've needed whitout resesvation, great guy.....

[Dave Hammer]

To measure the taper in a sow block or anvil dovetail, cut two pieces of small round stock (like 1/4 or 3/8) one foot long.  Take die out and put those two pieces of round down in the dovetail, pushed against the sides on the bottom.  Use a small square to line up the ends of the rounds with each other.  Then measure the distance from outside to outside on both ends.  IIRC, Little Giants are supposed to be 1/8th inch taper per foot. Even if the dovetail is screwed up from use, this should show you whether or not there is a taper there.

[78sharpshooter]

Thanks for the advice. I will try this measurement method. On a side note I spent 4 hours getting my new screw press of the trailer and into my shop. It was pretty painful but safe.

[78sharpshooter]

The press is pretty large and only after finishing the job did we realize that the stand could be unbolted which would have made it much easier to move.

[Frosty]

Well, this sure saves me from starting a topic. I'm making new dies for my old style 50# LG. Now I don't have to wait till the latch thaws out of the ground on the Connex so I can get my calipers and check the dovetail tapers.

 

I picked up about 5" of 110mm. 4140 rd. from a local machine shop to make the dies with. MAN that's tough stuff even annealed, about 20 mins. to cut a slice in my horizontal/vertical bandsaw. Squaring them up cost me a band when the slice shifted in the vise. <sigh>

 

The dovetails are ready to weld but I need to make bolt ears for the top as I trimmed the male dovetails to length but the local trend is to make all our dies interchangeable. So, the flat dies are ready to radius and scarf the weld joins, the bolt flanges are only waiting final measurements for clearance and a cleanup to weld.

 

Matching the dovetails male to female isn't going to be a big time user for me, I'm doing the fine adjustment with the keys. This hammer has seen 100 years of heavy use and the original plow shear dies are well worn but mount as solidly as can be. If what I do isn't good enough I'll do it differently.

 

I'll post pics as soon as I find the charger for my camera or buy another one.

 

Frosty The Lucky.