newlad Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hello there this is my first post on a forum .Iv moved from the UK to france with my mother and the wife I have a lot of time on my hands as there is not a lot of work here for a non french speaker and having worked hard in the UK I figure on having a year off . Before I left England I took a one day course in blacksmithing and realy enjoyed it so I could not believe it when I went to an auction to get rid of some stuff prior to moving and a anvil with about twenty tools came up and I bought the lot for 70 quid along with a few welders and some grinders I worked out all I needed was a forge which Im building now I have built the tuyer and an airpipe with a hinged gate at the bottom I wondered how big and how many holes to drill in the tuyer allso I am building a fire box around it How deep and what dimensions should it be I am thinking of the forge top being about three foot square as I have a plate about that size in the garden and should I line the plate with fire bricks and if I do How much deeper should the fire box be than the bed of the forge .please forgive me for the questions I am eager to build the next stage but looking at the plans on the internet I can not see any exact sizes and only ever seeing a forge once in my life I can not work the sizes out Thanks a lot what I like about this forum is on one page there is a young chap building a forge out of nothing whilst the next page a picture of a massive perpose built workshop brand new and yet you guys all talk on a level with each other cheers RIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Hello, newlad, welcome to the forum, you are evidently sliding down the coal chute like the rest of us. Congratulations on your purchase of tools, I am not sure what 70 quid is in US dollars but it sounds like a really good bargain. You have sort of opened the door with your questions, so be prepared for many different solutions to your problem. My 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp Fox Posted July 25, 2005 Share Posted July 25, 2005 Slide down the coal shute, I like it ! There is a lot of talk of forges on this site from using a toy wagon, using a 55 gallon drum, using a break drum, to home built forges. The ideas these people come up with are great! It seems they all work, and there is no one forge plan to follow, just some way to get metal hot. Good find on the tools at the auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strine Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Irnsrgn, 70 quid ie 70 pounds is about US$122. A real bargain for sure I'd say. Newy, A good shape for the hollow in which your coals will get hot is an upturned bowler. Well sort of. A bowler is oblong to fit your nogg'n and maybe not quite taperered enough toward the crown (where Irnsrgn's 3/8 holes are). Round would be better and a square shape works good too. How you get air into the bowler ie through Irnsrgn's holes and what surrounds the brim is entirely up to you. If your imagination is limitless then so is the variety of configurations that will work. Like how to get your forge at a comfortable height, how to arrange a storage area for coal/coke/charcoal etc for immediate use, how to attach the air supply, how to extract any fumes or smoke out of harms way, how to get the forge from A to B if it's to be portable, how to get rid of clinker the list goes on. Some forges I've seen are works of art in this regard. A mate made one entirely out of stainless. We called it the shopping trolly The main thing though is the ducks nest or fire pot. About 6 inches deep, about 6 inches across the top and about 3 inches across the bottom either round or square. That's my tuppence worth and it's possibly worth tuppence. Do some research here and elsewhere and you'll find a whole heap of other ideas. Have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 Welcome to the forum. I found that 2 air holes 1/2" x 3" with a 1/2 or 3/4 solid section between them is about right for the air in my forge. But that is my set up and the next fellows set up and is different but it works also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlad Posted July 26, 2005 Author Share Posted July 26, 2005 Thanks for the infomation I built a firebox today I worked out the average from the different infomation you gave me Im glad I posted because my tuyere was as big as the whole bottom of the firebox so Iv changed it now I am thinking of building the base out of stones and cement as there is a lot hanging around the garden they are not big but they should do the job Im building the forge outside the garage and then Im going to build a covered roof over it I have to go the electric driven air as I have a old vacume and a couple of air blowers from some wall units and monet being a little tight I have to try to use what I can I have designed (in my head so it might not work) a physical adjustment for the blower in which the air leaves a pipe that has a adjustable flap on it when open Im hoping all the air will leave by the easiest route for it but I am a little concerned that it might create a vacume and pull the hot air the wrong way down the tuyere has anyone any experience of this cheers Rik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 26, 2005 Share Posted July 26, 2005 A base for a forge from angle iron is a lot easier to build, just drill holes and bolt it together. It is also a lot easier to more than a masonary forge base. A fast fix for conducting air between the air source and a forge is 3" flexable metal dryer vent. Lay it on the ground and aim the air source TOWARD the opening. Less air, let some air miss the opening. The opening is lower than the forge and will usually draw air up the pipe naturally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 An easy way to control the air is to cover the blower opening and open it just enough to get the correct amount of air to the fire. Its a lot easier than trying to make a flap valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlad Posted July 27, 2005 Author Share Posted July 27, 2005 Thanks I have changed the design again and bought some angle iron today The plate I was going to use for the base was in the garden and went to get it today it is so heavy I could not lift it on its side by myself so had to use another from the french scrap yard and found a advantage in not speaking the language the guy could not understand what I wanted so alowed me to wonder at my leisure the normally prohibited scrapyard I spotted lots of useful things including a base I am fixing it tomorow to my fire box and maybe starting on the legs I imagine about three and a half high might do but if this is not correct please tell me as your knowledge helps me through as I do not have a forge that I can go and see yet although I have heard that there is one run by a french guy about 12 mile away .I need to try to locate some blacksmith coal and cannot find the right terms in french to ask for I dont suppose some one could tell me what are the qualities of the coal so I might try to locate some ie how does it differ from normal house coal and failing that can I use coke as I know the name for that one last qestion when I start making the legs tomorow I wondered if the forge would be more stable if the legs were slightly splayed out or would this get in the way when I get to use the forge I also thought perhaps keep the front legs straight with the front of the forge but splayed out slighly away from the sides annd the back ones splayed both side and out from the forge as well or is it better to keep them all the same size as the base of the forge thanks a lot RIK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Put a plate on the counter to in your kitchen and prentend it is a forge. Now put it on the kitchen table and again pretend it is a forge. Next put it on the sear of the kitchen chair (most likely will be too short) and pretend it is a forge. Choose what is most comfortable for you and then adjust to the inbetween heights. Each smith is taller or shorter and adjusts to suit his comfort. If you cut the angle iron legs short, you can always bolt on another short piece of angle iron as an "adjustment" to increase or decrease the height. Here is you use pipe, select two sizes that one will fit inside the other. Drill a hole once the right height is located and run a bolt through both pieces of pipe to hold that adjustment. 3 legs (think tripod) will always set firm on the ground. While your in the junk yard, don't forget that angle iron bed rails make good building materials. As to the fuel, I will have to ask others to chime in as to what and where the fuel is available in your neck of the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlad Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Well I have built a forge at least that is what I call it I picked up a bit of scrap half as wide as needed but twice as long and with a ugly snail track it was welded together I built the fire box out of some heavy cast iron drain pipe and welded my home made box on it I was lucky that in my shed was a vacume cleaner missus told me throw away but I kept it hidden and luck would have it the machine had a varable dial on it and a seperate hole in it so it would blow and not suck and then if fate were on my side the hose pushed snuggly jnto my pipe which I had welded on to the firebox .I have made a flap on the box but have not finished the counter weight to keep it shut so I have just wedged it in true bodge style I managed to find the name of the blacksmiths coal in France "charbon de forge" and there is a supplyer two minutes from were I live I tell you are going that smooth that I am begining to worry Iv put some pictures of my first small forge on myimage 1 http://www.yourimg.com/?page=05/213/10/1.jpg The scrap plate twice as long but half as wide 2 http://www.yourimg.com/?page=05/213/10/2.jpg with a bit of practice I will learn to weld better 3 http://www.yourimg.com/?page=05/213/10/4.jpg the pot and pipe 4 http://www.yourimg.com/?page=05/213/10/5.jpg Ready to weld onto the base after drilling eight holes in the bottom for the air 5 http://www.yourimg.com/?page=05/213/10/6.jpg slapped together I dont know whether to fire cement the fire bricks in because it has got a bit heavy to move and as I have not built a chiminey I am going to fire it up straight away I have got some steel so I can build some tongs I have read so much theory but now I need to hit some metal thanks for all the help I will let you know how it goes by the way the forge has cost me total in euros which are similar to dollars 30 euros and about twenty welding rods and ten cutting discs that I allready had so it is a budget build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlad Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Just come back from my first forging session apart from the one day course I went on last year .I fired my little baby up and atempted to make some tongs I spent about three hours forging and managed to make half a set I was a bit sad at first because I think I made the fire pot too deep with the fire bricks it comes to nearly 7 inches and all the heat seemed to be at the bottom of the pot it was easy to make the ends of the tongs but to draw out the handles the bar did not get hot enough so I emptyed the pot and chucked a couple of fire bricks in and put the coals back in it was still slow and I was getting a little downhearted but I pushed the fire back with more firebricks and after about an hour the fire started to give a better heat but it was a lot harder than I imagined anyway I persevered and slowly got there I respect you guys even more now I allways thought it would easier than it was but it was very hard never mind I have plenty of enthusiasm and I learnt a lot today I wondered how long it normally takes a forge to warm up to normal operational heat I wondered how to put the fire out I made a big booboo today by pouring water on it .The water filled the tuyere pipe up went down the vacume pipe and filled the vac cleaner up with water which was live but turned off with the varable switch so it might have caused a big problem but I was lucky I guess next time I will place the cleaner higher than the forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 You don't pour water on the fire, you baptise it by sprinkling. Just enough to cool the outside coal or coke and keep the fire contained a bit. POURING can crack the firepot, cause steam explosions, steam burns, and thermal shock anything hot. Each forge is different and takes a different touch. Play with the construction, fuel, air, and fire maiintance to get it to work for you. Others can provide guide lines on size and shapes that work for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandpile Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 NEWLAD be careful about getting the cleaner higher than the fire... If you leave it higher while you are forging it can let unburned gasses up into the pipe and cause blow out or backfire.. You have done a good job on the forge.. Congrats Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strine Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I wondered how long it normally takes a forge to warm up to normal operational heat I start to think about rebuilding the fire if it's not a nice pot of yellow coals within 5 minutes. I am usually preheating stuff by about three minutes after lighting the kindling. To heat the end of say a 3/8 round bar should take only a couple of minutes. I don't add fuel unless I know the stuff underneath is well and truly alight either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlad Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 Thanks guys I thought I think I have read that much on the internet and in books that I have saturated my brain so much that I can not remember what I have read so I will look at the firepot again and will read up on the basics of lighting the fire I am going to try not to light it today but to study and mess with the pot can I just ask what would you think is an avarage size fot the firepot on a small forge like mine 2ft 10 by 2ft 10 and how deep should it be including the firebicks ie the total depth as I suspect that most of heat is lower in the pot that what I need I noticed the bar would heat up very quickly when I held it in the pot but when I wanted to draw the bar out and had to put the bar through the fire it took a lot longer to heat up chears Rik Grant me patience but hurry up about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strine Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Rik The 2'10" x 2'10" is immaterial. It's just a neat area to store fuel, somewhere to lay the tongs your using or something to support the other end of longish stock, up to a point of course, somewhere to rest a brew to keep it warm, somewhere to stockpile scrap and unused tools. My fire pot is an upturned, 1/2 inch thick, cast iron, truncated square pyramid, 6 x 6 inches at the top, 3 x 3 inches at the bottom and four inches deep. Air arrives at the bottom of the pot via two 3 x 3/8 inch slots from a hand cranked "Rapid B" (Australian) blower. Allowing for a 1 to 2 inch mound of coals above the top of the pot the actual depth of fire is 5 to 6 inches. It works a treat and the next one I make will be exactly the same, only next time I'll make space to knock up a few biscuits or scones. From the photos it looks like your depth including bricks is around 6 inches adding 2 inches for a mound of coals makes 8 inches. That seems just a bit two deep for a small setup. Good on you anyway for trying to get it right. Getting it right at this point must auger well for a continued interest in the craft. Don't be disheartened at early disappointments either. I, as well as probably most of the experts around here could tell a few stories about how niaive they were in the early days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Gold Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 Very nice forge, Newlad! I think it's quite a piece of work. Looks just about professional I would probably have run it a bit differently, but that's me. I'm really enjoying following your progress on here, but could you please use a few periods in your posts? Reading them is leaving me breathless :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlad Posted August 19, 2005 Author Share Posted August 19, 2005 Im been a little quiet recently because Iv been on the forge tuning it in and I am pleased to say after getting pretty low Im on top of the world and can start dreaming of getting there I pulled the fire bricks out from the left and the right of the pot I made some bigger tuyere plates so when I slot them into the old upside down pyramid they effectively made the pot more shallow so my pot is only 2 inchs at the front and back but at the sides it is four allowing me to put long pieces of metal eg tongs I also won a very old metal vacume cleaner from a french garage sale With the old forge I could not work in the middle but the new one is great I knew it was getting hotter because whilst working on some tongs I did my usual count to ten to pull the bar out in order to draw it out when I saw that that the top part of the jaws were missing .melted away I was very happy and have made four sets of tongs the first took a week the second 3 hours and then I made some small ones in 20 minutes My next job is to start making some tools for the hardy the ones I bought in the UK from the auction are all to wide to go in and are the sort of shapes that I wont need for a while I am thinking of making some sort of holder for the tools set in a piece of scrap with just a hardy hole big enough for the tools Thanks for the help guys next task is to follow the recent post on forge welding now I can get the sparkling heat I will let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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