raptorvan Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 my friend who i used to do my wetal work with on his charcoal forge moved so i decided to build a gas forge. its small it is a square tube made with fore brick and refactory cement. the back is closed off and that is where the burner enter. the front is mostly closed off except for the bottom half for putting the work piece in. my burner is a venturi style. a 12" 3/4" piece of black pipe. a 1"-3/4 inch bell reducer on the back with the gass feed going thru a 1/4" brass pipe...nipple? with a 1mm hole drilled into the side. i put two sets of holes near the back on the pipe so the gas could pick up some air. my problem is this...i cannot get the flame to stay lit. if i ignite it thru the holes the flame shoots from the back instead of the tip. i have to light it out of the forge then when i stick the pipe into the forge it immediatly goes out. if i light it from inside the forge it flashes out and the flameis fairly weak. i was shooting for a turkey ryer flame but im getting a lazy version. what am i doing wrong here? do i need some sort of air flow into the pipe? right now if i turn it up too far too fast it flashes out. if i turn it up high it will flash out too. is the pipe too long? so i need more opening in the forge? is a flare...or lack of....on the tip to blame.? thanks guys for any info you can give me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieforge Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 It sounds like your burner does not have a flared tip. The flare is necessary to hold the flame. If you have not, you should through Ron Reil's burner info:http://ronreil.abana.org/design1.shtml Also do you have any photos or sketches you could post, explaining what you have built? That would help us help you. All the best Markus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Yes we need to see what you are doing. If you have the open ended bell are you sure you need holes in the pipe? None of my burners have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptorvan Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 It sounds like your burner does not have a flared tip. The flare is necessary to hold the flame. If you have not, you should through Ron Reil's burner info:http://ronreil.abana.org/design1.shtml Also do you have any photos or sketches you could post, explaining what you have built? That would help us help you. All the best Markus ill have to get some pics. the flared tip...are we talking a reducer or a cone? you dont think my pipe is too long? the plans i got this from and the others out there are only using 7-8'' long pipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptorvan Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 this is what i build mine from....http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/oliverburner1.htm lhttp://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/oliverburner1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptorvan Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 now. i didnt put anything on the tip because the ray rogers one didnt have a tip and it supposedly worked just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 If You have followed the lil prints at the bottom of the page you should not have an issue . It maybe an pressure issue as in the regulator is set too high 3 - 5 psi for that set up. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 NOTE when you change *ANYTHING* of a documented working burner design you should assume it will not work! It's like going into your car engine and deciding to change a valve or piston---would you expect the engine to work? Unless you are willing to spend a massive amount of time figuring out how to make things work after making a change you should NOT fiddle with the design *unless* you have a solid background in how they work so that you can make reasoned changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieforge Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Thomas makes a good point. Building your blacksmithing gear is a process. Make your first burner by following the plans exactly. That means follow the lengths and dimensions to the t, and try to buy plumbing parts that look like the ones in the plans. This will pretty much guarantee that you will get a working burner when you are done. When you have a working burner, you will have a much better idea of how they work. Then you'll be in a great position to start playing around with the design, and trying out some of your own ideas. All the best Markus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieforge Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 raptorvan, I checked out the burner link on backyardmetalcasting.com that you posted. This burner is very simple to make and probably works well enough for foundries. But I think it will be less than ideal for blacksmithing, because it will be tricky to tune it to a neutral or reducing flame. (As you know from your research into gas forges, an important part of running the forge is controlling the interior atmosphere.) Also, the flares the backyardmetalcasting.com guy uses are on the thin side. Scarily thin. Sheet metal will burn up pretty fast, and before it burns, it will get soft and sag, possibly blocking the burner tube. That could cause all sorts of "fun" situations, with burning gas coming out of the wrong end of the burner, and so on. I would strongly recommend NOT using sheet metal. Instead follow Ron Reil's design and take a piece of 1" pipe and forge out the flare. The Reil burner is already as simple as it gets. Instead of cutting corners with "simplified Reil" burners, I would strongly recommend you build a real Reil burner first, even if for no other purpose than to educate yourself on how these burners work. These are the instructions I followed initially:http://metalcast.boorman.us/reil_1.html It might take you a bit more time, but you'll actually get a safe, reliable burner that can put out the heat you need. All the best Markus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Flame holders, while helpful, are not necessary because the forge cavity is a flame holder...you just won't be able to light in open air. The Reil burner is good, but requires relatively still air to function, so it is a poor choice when used out doors with wind. I am using Frosty's T-burner, which is a little difficult to tune but very easy to build. It tolerates wind better than the Reil burner. Phil http://anvilsandinkstudios.com/burner.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbieforge Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Thanks for posting the links, Phil. I really enjoyed reading about how you built your gas forge. I learned 1 or 2 things I'll have to try out myself. Regards, Markus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Raptor guy: as already said, follow the design, trying to invent something without knowing how it works isn't setting yourself for success. Ron's burners are proven by years of success. The Oliver design is much closer to Mike Porter's design. Ron's are linear inducers meaning the air intake is in line with the jet and tube. Mike's are ejectors, the air intake is at 90* of the tube and jet. My T burners are ejectors. Regardless, pick ONE design, follow the directions and if you're going to mess around with them only change ONE thing at a time or you'll NEVER know what did what. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 On thing to think about: is your end goal to forge steel or mess around with burners? Both are worth goals; but you don't want to confuse the two upstream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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