Bta Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi there, I´m actually studying the termimology of Blacksmithing and I´m wondering: what is the difference between a rivet set ( i mean a kind of punch with a hole [to tighten the joint])and a monkey tool? I´m even not so sure about the term rivet set, because its often used as synonym to rivet header, set punch, rivet set punch...or both are coming together in one tool (like the one here: link removed by request of that sites owner.) and are there other names for the monkey tool? bta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 They are different tools and used for different purposes. The rivet set sets rivets. The monkey tool is used for final dressing of tenon shoulders. I guess that a rivet set that happened to be the proper size could conceivably be used as a monkey tool but it is an unlikely event. Rivet sets are usually used for smaller rivets while the tenons which the monkey tools are used on tend to be half inch and larger and may be square or rectangular as well as round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielpiotte Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 As an interesting side note, I met a blacksmith once who refused to use the term monkey tool. His research into the names origin led him to believe it was a deragotory term from the days of slave ownership. It was considered a tool so simple a "monkey" could use it. I have no idea if it is true or not but it does give a different perspective. Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petere76 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Dan, PC world is a little over the top, don't you think. I have never heard of the Monkey tool called anything else. I guess you could call it a tenon set tool. PC terms seem to get the better of us wherever you turn. A fag used to be a cigarette and gay according the dictionary on my shelf actually means happy. Today it seems like the tail is wagging the dog, try not to give in to the stupidity or encourage the pc police out there. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I´m actually studying the termimology of Blacksmithing and I´m wondering: Hi bta, if you look in the other part of this section there is a pinned item on blacksmiths tools explained, and their terminology http://www.iforgeiro...cksmiths-tools/ Monkeying is also regarded as a corruption of a French term, and the tool is used to create shoulders on tenons, For rivetting, a rivetting set is used, comprising a snap, and a set(t) The set(t) is the one you are comparing to a monkey tool and has a hole to enable the rivet to be seated prior to forming the head, and a recess to form the finished rivet head, in the picture, a dome or round head, this is a snap. The other snap tool is held in the vice and used as a seat when rivetting over the rivet to secure the joint, the other snap is then used to form the dome to match the other end of the rivet. The allowance for rivetting using a snap is one and a half times the diameter of the rivet being used. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bta Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thank you John, now I know wich one is the set, and "rivet header" could then be a synonym for snap... I know the Tool ID section it´s a great ressource! (and that´s how I discovered this forum) but as I am trying to grasp the meaning of many Blacksmithing terms I´m getting confused because of being confronted with a lot of synonyms and maybe wrong used terms. on the Blacksmith´s depot they say about the monkey tool: "Sharpen and upset the shoulder on your tenons and rivets. Name comes from the original "Monkay." Nothing to do with those animals that eat bananas and hang from trees." ... by the way, there is no such thing as a monkey tool in german (only rivet sets; and tenons are made with swages and upsetted in swageblocks as far as I am informed) Bta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 John B has it right as the terms are used in the U.K. Most Americans don't know the "snap" term. A wonderful old British book, "Handcraft in Metal" by Shirley & Shirley, corroborates John B's response. In the U.S., the low domed head formed by the snap is called a truss head on manufactured rivets. The set tightens all the parts together before riveting. If there is a gap between two parts when riveting begins, the rivet shank will upset in that area, and the gap will always remain. Poor workmanship and not a keeper. However, when "rivet header" pops into your head as another word for the snap, that could be misconstrued. We call the rivet making tool a rivet header or heading tool. This tool has a hole in the end of a thick, usually circular boss and it has a forged handle integral to the boss. The rivet head is forged hot while the shank or tail is fit into the hole, leaving enough material protruding upward to allow for an upset head. I've heard old time, U.S. leather workers and metal workers call the snap a domer, which could be made-up, "good ol' boy" vernacular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Thanks for the continuing education fellas. I just call the tool used to finish the head a rivet header. The " set " can be a top or bottom tool in my shop. The bottom tool can or may be called a monkey tool by me as well simply because i have some that have various sizes in them for various needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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