I saw a Dayton Helve Hammer for sale in the Tailgating section, and it's the first helve hammer that has gotten my interest.

The hammer is here:

http://www.ebay.com/...o-/150882755404

and there's video of it being operated here:

Since I'm completely new to helve hammers (and have never actually used a power hammer of any kind) I had a few questions I'm hoping you more knowledgeable folks can answer:

1. Does anyone have a feel for how heavy the tup in the hammer referenced above might be? In other words, how big of a Little Giant style mechanical hammer this might be equivalent to, in terms of moving metal?

2. Are helve hammers always this short? In the video of this one being operated, the man operating it is tall, but still, this hammer seems like it was built for elves! Why are they so "short"? And, is there any problem with blocking them up higher so the operator doesn't get a back-ache from having to bend over all day? If you block them up, does having all the weight "up high" make the thing unstable and prone to "tip over"?

Are there any particular advantages or disadvantages of helve hammers, as opposed to mechanical hammers like the LG or junkyard tire hammer?

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any information.

Thank you for your reply, Stewartthesmith.

Is that particular hammer called a "hawkeye"?

Also, in reading about helve hammers, I see many of them are "guided." Is there any advantage to having the hammer guided laterally, as opposed to this configuration? (I don't see how the hammer could move laterally, so long as the shaft bearings are OK.)

Thanks again.

That fine specimen of a hammer is mine.
Yes i'm tall
The hammer is a small compact HEAVY hitting hammer.
Its just sitting on a dirt floor
If you look close at the video you can see me step on the foot pedal several times because the hammer has worked its way down into the dirt floor a little.
It can be raised as high as you would like.
I really didn't buy it to use a lot as I have a little giant and an iron kiss.
I bought it mainly because it is a cool little hammer.
All I have done to it is paint it grey and put a brand new motor on it.
It was originaly designed to run from a line shaft.
Even most mechanical upright power hammers are on the short side for me
:)

when peops were shorter than they are today.

scientific evidence???
:huh:

scientific evidence???
:huh:

All older powerhammers have anvils that are close to the ground?? :P

lol, the japanese swordsmiths must be 2 ft tall by that logic! have you seen how low they have their anvils ! :P

these guys are tiny, this is only a 2" squarebar :P

I think that proves the people of old were smaller ;)

Thank you for your reply Yesteryearforge.

You say it's a heavy hitting hammer...if you had to compare it to a LG, as far as how fast it draws out metal, what size LG would you compare it to?

Sorry if these are really basic questions. I'm new to power hammers.

In the mid 19th century men in America were about 3 inches shorter. Perhaps hammers were designed so that you could set them where you want them---a lot easier to use a hammer on a pedestal than a hammer in a hole!

Crunch, while any working powerhammer is better than no hammer; if you would share what you want to use it with folks might be able to advise you better as to if it would suit your needs.

Crunch, why don't you drive over and give it a try? You are both in Virginia so travel should not be an issue.

Crunch
All of those questions are relevant
You are welcome to come visit and see it run if you would like.
I'm about 50 miles west of Richmond
I would say it would be close to a 25 lb little giant

Bring a piece of what you'd like to use it for and let him show you what it can do!

Crunch
All of those questions are relevant
You are welcome to come visit and see it run if you would like.
I'm about 50 miles west of Richmond

YesteryearForge,
Thank you for the offer. I may take you up on it.
The kind of work I would probably be wanting to do would be making hardware (hasps and hinges for barns, as well as lighter stuff for furniture), woodworking tools (heavy chisels and slicks, carving tools, froes, maybe even some axe heads) and eventually I would like to try drawing out pattern welded steel for knives.
So 90% of the time I wouldn't be drawing out anything heavier than maybe 3/4" and occasionally I might want to draw down 1" or 1-1/4" material.
Would that hammer be appropriate for this kind of work?
Again, I'm really a rank amateur at all of this so I appreciate any and all advice you folks can offer.
Thank you again.

You would probally be better off to go with a little giant .
There are several choices of new hammers out there also.
Big Blue
Iron Kiss
an yang
saymak etc.
When all is said and done you may come out cheaper buying new rather that buying used for a good price and then spending as much in dollars and much more in time to get it right.

OK, thank you for letting me know that.
It sure is a nice looking hammer, though! Real simple and solid looking.

You should still go and use it if you can. You need to get some hammer time in to help you judge hammers.

When choosing a power hammer there are things you need to consider first the money, the Location (Local of far away transporting it), The size of stock you work with the most and will the hammer handle it ( buy bigger than you think you will need you will grow into it fast). Ask around I found one in my own town a old blacksmith had sitting in his back yard. Just happened to mention I was in the market for a hammer at a blacksmithing meeting over lunch and a friend pointed me in the direction of the hammer I have. Then you can always build your own. The advantage to that is you will know how the hammer works and can fix any problems that arise.

the big disadvantage with a non guided helve would seem to be the limited range of material thickness where the dies are parallel.

the big disadvantage with a non guided helve would seem to be the limited range of material thickness where the dies are parallel.

Basher,

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here (sorry I'm a n00bie) ... do you mean that you can only work on material where the two sides are parallel? If you hammer on something irregularly shaped like, say, the head of a railroad spike to draw it down, is a non-guided helve hammer going to want to deflect, or glance off the side of the work?

I have a helve hammer hammer (which I am also, coincidentally trying to sell), and the non parallel dies do indeed count against it.
What that means, Crunch, is that the "ram" does not go straight up and down, but swings in an arc.
I have found that this means that extra care must be taken in forging, because the blow is not even.
My helve hammer is still a good hammer, it hits very hard, and is extremely useful for doing rough forging, but it lacks finesse and is pretty rubbish for tooling of any kind.

Oh - I get it now - since the tup is at the end of a lever arm, it swings through an arc rather than in a line, as it would in a LG or "normal" trip hammer.

Thank you for clarifying that for me, Dan.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLACKSMITH-DAYTON-HELVE-trip-hammer-power-hammer-watch-the-video-/150889029818?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2321afe0ba