Steve McCarthy Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Yesterday I finally got my hammer home. I traded for it at BAM confrence four weeks ago. It is a Modern Power Hammer made in Grinnell, Ia. It's had lots of modifications done over the years, and I need to sort out a drive for it and have a set of dies made. Today I made a 4" Oak base, got it put together and set in the shop. Peacock had a lot of helpful suggestions for getting it into running shape. Pounding Out the Profits has quite a bit of information about the company. From it's descriptions, this hammer had to have been made between July, 1904 and September 1905. Anybody have pictures of a running Modern? Maybe tomorrow I'll get some pics posted. Right now I've only got $425 in the hammer. Needless to say, I'm pretty excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Awesome. I can't wait to see pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 So Steve, I'm assuming that you didn't use the forklift this time . . . ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 So Steve, I'm assuming that you didn't use the forklift this time . . . ;) Thanks Bernie. Can always count on you to salt the wound. I wasn't even one of the front row hecklers on Saturday!!! Anyhow, got it set in with out major incident. Sure am glad it comes apart though. The base and frame was all my 8N and jib pole wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 Camera was facing the sunlight so the pics didn't turn out real good. Still need to put spacers between sow block and frame, and..... well, there is a lot still needs doing. Shop is a complete mess. Hand to move half of it outside to get the hammer in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOblacksmith0530 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 glad to hear there were no unload issues. Can't wait to see the first piece you forge on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pug}{maN Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 love it ! wish i could come help put it up ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 5, 2012 Author Share Posted June 5, 2012 Your hammer looks very similar to a champion/scranton/williams and white/ belden configuration, with the leaf springs. Believe it or not, john deere also made a similar hammer. I am very good at getting these hammers running efficiently, so if you need any advice, holla at me. How heavy is the head? Thanks for the offer Stewart. I didn't weigh the head, but Pounding out the Profits lists them as 35lbs. The linkage between crankshaft and pivot arm has a series of holes that allows stroke adjustment. Peacock suggested replacing that with a tractor top link. That is something I will probably do. It was also suggested to replace the belt pully with a tire drive. I may do that in the future, but first I think I will get it to run like it is and see what it does before I change too much. There is only one set of adjustment holes that allows the dies to touch each other. Turning the pully by hand it don't seem like it had enough stroke to hit very hard. I may be quite surprised with it under power. It may be a day or two before I get to work on it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/10351-champion-blower-and-forge-power-hammer/page__hl__%20champion%20%20power%20%20hammer here is a link to a thread where a lot of information was posted about champion power hammer. here is the information that I have compiled so far The only place you should not oil is on the drive belt surface area. One main thing to do. Make sure the toggle arms. The four arms that conect the ram to the spring arm, are drawn up so they are almost level. Not level. About 3/4" slop. you can measure this by holding a straight edge across the pins holding the arms at the spring, and the main pin through the ram should be about 3/4" of an inch below the straight edge. Play with this to find the optimum stroke for your hammer. This will also be affected by how far down you set the whole ram and spring arm assembly. To start tunning I would set that halfway with the double set screw holding the main pin. Going back to the toggle arms. If they are too sloppy, the hammer will skip or double hit. When they are too tight you stand a good chance of snapping the toggle arm at the spring pin junction. One other member recomended not over driving the bottom die wedge. RIGHT ON! My hammer was repaired due to this long before I got it. It is much better to re tighten the wedges every so often than to crack that front piece out. When mine was repaired they set the cracked piece back in place, drilled and tapped for three 3/4" bolts, bolted the 3 bolts after that, then they ground a V all the way around the 3 outside planes and welded it. I have had no problems with it, but I baby it there. As for other suggestions make sure the arm pins fit well in the spring arm holes. Where the spring wraps around the pin. Those pins should be no more than a 1/16" smaller than the spring holes. If they are sloppy the hammer won't hit right. One of the #0's I tunned had like 1 1/4" pins in a 1 3/4" hole. WAY to sloppy. The dovetail ways should be a little looser than you might think. Very scientific sounding, I know. But the best thing to do with them is after you have the hammer up and running. Move them in and out with the set screws until they are snug but not so snug as to stop the ram mid way in its stroke. That Champion is in super shape. The guides are like new in the thing and with that overhead jackshaft it should give very nice control. One thing that was wonky on that hammer was the brake did not engage when the treadle was up, It might return back to where it should be one the motor is in place and under tension. What I would do with that hammer is carfully scribe the outline of the smaller die onto the bigger die and then take them into a machine shop that can mate them up and flatten them out. I would do a combination style die with the fuller at front. if you change the motor its pretty critical to get the speed right so take note of the pulley diameter on that 5 horse. I ran my last one with a 110V 1.5HP motor and it worked perfectly. If it was going to be in severe use I would step up to a 2HP Once you get it timed right, the brake engaging and the toggles adjusted that hammer should give you single blow capability. One thing that will help down the road is make your self up a set of wood blocks to set the working hight of the upper die. at rest you want that die to be about a 1/8 above the thickness your working for the best control and hardest hit. I kept mine adjusted so when you rolled the machine over by hand the upper die would come within about 1/4" of the lower die and I didnt move it up until I got over 3/4 stock unless I was going to do real fine work.. should clarify in the earlier post about setting the die position... that 1/4 clear between the die is with the crank on its lowest possible position on the flywheel and with the toggle arms pulled good and tight on the spring and a very well adjusted hammer... Most hammers with a little slop in them you would need more like 3/4 of a inch to get a solid wack but yet have a light touch... and thats if your forging 1/4 or 3/8 stock... if your forging 1" bar you would need more like 1 3/4 clear at idle and the lowest position... Thats one of those things that really impacts performance and you just need to play with your hammer to see what works best... start with half a dozen 5/8 or 3/4 square bars that are a foot long with a center punch mark at 8" ( if you dont want to hold it with tongs make them as long as you want I guess) get them all up to temp and consistently forge out as long of taper as you can in one heat from the center punch mark... make an adjustment and go to the next one.... listen to how and where in its stroke the hammer hits and how hard of blows it lands... and it it is double tapping or missing a beat (way out of tune) its surprising how drastic of change you can get... also it will show you directly what your adjustments do Also I said I would do combo dies on that hammer and the only reason for that is because unlike a little giant the center of the tup weight is centered in the skinny of the die so working on either end has much less of a negative effect on the hammer.. and since it sounds likely this will be your primary hammer and its relatively small ( but capable ... a 65lb Champion that is well tuned will almost do the work of a run of the mill 100lb little Giant though) its sure nice to have fullering dies to quickly break down material and blend transitions..... If you have any questions Id be happy to help... I have owned two #1's and done some pretty major work on them including pouring new bearings in one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Stewart, Francis, thanks for your advice. I have very little experience with power hammers. I appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poleframer Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I really like the way the guide can be adjusted on the column. Neat concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Steve and Francis, i'd be interested to know the thickness and diameter of the column. ta. andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Andrew the center pole is 5 1/2" diameter and 3/8" thick. Stewart those are interesting connecting arms. What makes the layered belting hit harder than a solid rod? The original mounting point on both sides of my ram are broken off and the stubs that are left have been drilled to accept 3/8 round that connects it to the spring. I would have to think long and hard before milling out a slot in the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Sweet rig Steve. No doubt it will be runnin soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Got the spare tire mounted to the crank shaft tonight. Still need to fab a flat pully for the motor. Even though the motor still has the v-belt pully on it, I had to hinge it forward and see the hammer run under power. It is a long ways from ready to forge on, but seeing it move was exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Go to your local farm store and buy a weld-a-sprocket hub the right size for your motor. but the largest OD you can get with the correct bore. then you can weld a piece of pipe over that. makes a quick easy flat pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Phil the flat pully needs to be about 3 1/2" OD right? I'll have to see what Orscheln has. I looked in our pile of hubs and sprockets at work but couldn't find anything to fit a 5/8" shaft. I didn't have to raise the crank sahft like we thought. The 175x70x15 spare has almost an inch of clearance at the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOC Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 thanks for the measurements Steve. 3/8" thick is serious 'built in robust-ness'! a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 The Modern is up and running. It wasn't a terribly difficult project, it just took a lot of thinking and time. now I need to make a set of dies. The ones that came with it don't fit right and aren't even a match to each other. I played a little and drew a respectable taper on some 1/2" round. A hammers size or weight is measured by the weight of all it's moving parts (head, guide, spring, die) right? Pounding out the Profits only speaks of a 30lb Modern. I weighed the head, guide, springs and top die of mine. It weighed exactly 75lbs on a bathroom scale. Is this a 75lb hammer? I didn't weigh the sow block, but I have moved it several times and am certan it isn't over 350lbs. My dial-up won't let me attach pictures. I'll post them tomorrow from work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Here are the pictures I tried to attach last night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KYBOY Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Thats cool, you did a great job..Also your guide and springs dont count as hammer weight..just the hammer itself and the die.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Stormer Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Steve, by some coincidence I just got back from a friends house who has a Modern Power Hammer that he demonstrated to me. Since I'm not familiar with them, I don't know if it's original. It does have a belt drive on the left as you look at it from the front. It also has an arm on top that can be indexed to control how hard the hammer hits. Because of it's location in his shop, which is small and dark, I don't know if I can get good pictures that would help you, but I'll try next time I visit him. Should be within the next couple weeks. Next time you're in my area I would be glad to arrange a meeting at his shop so you could get first hand knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McCarthy Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Hi Bob. Glad to see you here. Pounding out the Profits has quite a bit of information about them. The slack belt pully on the left is original. The variable pivot was one of their selling points. It was used to make adjustments for stock thickness without tools or stopping. Both of these are long gone from my hammer. I've got the hammer running but the dies are crap. Hopefully I'll get a new set made soon. I don't know when I'll be your direction next, but would love to see you friends hammer. I may have to give you a call and make a special trip. See you at Lesterville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Edit: Hadn't read the second page before posting! So for future reference for all; The standard thing with pulleys these days is to use a taper lock. This is in effect a tapered collar with a split. You ease the collar open with a flat blade applied to the split & slide it onto the shaft. Remove the blade & you have an interference fit (plus a key way). The pulley is machined for the taper lock & slides right on, being fixed with 2,3 or 4 allen screws depending on the size.http://youtu.be/RBjtuetw44Q or: http://www.fptgroup.com/fenner.asp?title=Taper-Lock-Bushes&pageid=2668 Much cheaper than getting a pulley machined for the shaft, and more versatile as well. If there's a belts, drives / pulleys supplier near you, I'd go talk to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 Steve, Sweet looking hammer! You get an oo RAH! for you retrofit :D Ratel, I've seen a lot of those taper locks over the years. Great piece of engineering :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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