Unsalted1 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Basically I have a new forge and some good metal for making Damascus am I insane for trying to do this by hand. What do I need to be prepared for. And any hints that could get me moving in the right direction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 the big question- do you have previous forging experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsalted1 Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Nope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Then go ahead and make some.....lol. Seriously..learning fire management and the mechanical and mental skills are basic. Forge welding alone can take some folks long houirs at the forge. That may mean for some literally months to a year or more. Simply put lanyone can do this and I am an expample of that. It does not come easy and it is not something that will be learned in a short time. You c an shorten the time a little if you attend group sessions to see how basics are used. and then progress to more advanced groups or individual one on one training by someone with the time patience and ability. Budget some money for that. A few things you want to check off of your list of needs are forge anvil hammers, grinders tongs quench tanks. proper quenchant and a ton of other things I can think of. There is a lot of information on this site that will give yoiu more information. Written by knowledgeable folks willing to share. Think about showing up at the indy 500 race and asking a car owner if you can enter the race in one of his cars. And when he asks you must tell him that you have not driven a race car, you have never even set behind the wheel of any car. That is kind of where you are at with this question. Do some homework on this site and then ask more questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwisatz Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Don’t over think it. You’ll screw up quite a bit, just like me and anyone else who just decided to make a forge and try it. I firmly believe our way is a lot more fun! I have a few links that may help on my profile. Read as much as you can, watch a few videos, buy safety gear. Be sure to take pics while you going through it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshua.M Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 i have been forging for three years now and i am completely self taught, i am STILL hit and miss with forge welding one peice to another, damascus requires hundreds of 100% perfect welds to be strong and useable... what will you use for head? coal? coke? LP? natural gas?? waste oil? do you know what fulx is? do you know what a quenchant is? do you know how to properly anneal, normalise, harden, and temper? do you know the steps in forge welding off the top of your head and under pressure? you say you have good steel for making damascus, what is it? what are its propeties? what grade is it? dose your forge reach welding teperatures? Not trying to put you down, but these are ALL things you MUST know before you try, i am sure that others on here can add more to this list I have been forging almost every night for 3 years and have sunk a TON of money into this and have yet to try pettern welding (one more thing! what is the difference between pattern welede and damascus?) Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsalted1 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well I am using 1095 and 5160 spring steel, I know my forge gets to forge welding temperatures an I plan on using 20 mule team powder as my flux between my folds. I honestly have assumed it was simply welding to pieces together getting them hot enough to forge weld them together and continually foldin the layers into one another. I assume by your post it must be more than that. I have access to a world renown knife maker who has been helping me along but sometimes I feel bad asking him with the petty details so that is why I joined this forum so I could get help from lots of guys who know how to do things or are just learning like myself so any links hints or ideas are much appreaicated Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Basically I have a new forge and some good metal for making Damascus am I insane for trying to do this by hand. What do I need to be prepared for. And any hints that could get me moving in the right direction Hey man, 4 years ago I came to this forum and started the exact same thread almost!!!! The only difference was I didnt even have a forge!!!! lol Needless to say I didnt get the help that I wanted at the time but I didn infact get the best advice I could have been given at that time. I will share that same advice with you. Oh and I still havent done any forge welding I know the basic theory through and through but have yet to apply it. The best thing you can do in your situation is read, honestly man read lots and lots. Watch lots of videos, go to the liabrary and get some books. There is so much information just sitting there waiting to be read and a huge number of posts on forums around the world asking and discussing the same questions. I'm not saying you shouldnt try it, if your determined to, your going to and honestly go ahead if you really want to but don't expect to much. I'm not saying that you wont be able to pull it off but educating yourself is a really good start. If you already have a forge you should go get some scrap in smaller sizes and practice moving metal under the hammer. Its fun and will really help. Trust me keeping something square is harder then it looks espicially after a couple or 50 swings of a lead feather light hammer. Honestly man i'm pretty green myself but I have spent the past 4 years reading almost every day on alot of knife related smithing. I made my first forged knife with a huge success just finished it a few weeks ago. Have fun with it take any advice as positive advice even if it seems like there putting you down, its still got some usable advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well I am using 1095 and 5160 spring steel, I know my forge gets to forge welding temperatures an I plan on using 20 mule team powder as my flux between my folds. I honestly have assumed it was simply welding to pieces together getting them hot enough to forge weld them together and continually foldin the layers into one another. I assume by your post it must be more than that. I have access to a world renown knife maker who has been helping me along but sometimes I feel bad asking him with the petty details so that is why I joined this forum so I could get help from lots of guys who know how to do things or are just learning like myself so any links hints or ideas are much appreaicated Thanks in advance You might have some problems with the 1095 and 5160 I believe they dont share quite the same heat treating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsalted1 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Metal99 thanks for the info and I would love to see that knife send me a photo brandonmistler@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Metal99 thanks for the info and I would love to see that knife send me a photo brandonmistler@yahoo.com Ever since starting this knife I have read about knife making every day for about 4 hours a day! lol I stay up wayy to late reading the forums and watching youtube vids. I started a thread on that knife so here's the link for the thread the pics are there. Its nothing special but its functional. I used a "mistery" steel for the blade wich was not a smart move it took alot more work to find the right heat treating.http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/26289-my-very-first-knife/page__p__266066#entry266066 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maillemaker Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Fire welding is not "a petty detail". It is one of the most advanced, difficult processes a blacksmith can attempt. That being said, fire welding is conceptually simple. Heat the joining pieces to welding heat (look for the flux to flow and sizzle, looks like butter melted in the sun) and hammer together. Now, the details: The both steels must be at welding heat, which can be tricky because some steels will burn before others reach proper temp. The surfaces must be clean and free of scale and oxidation. Also, speed and accuracy are crucial. You'll have maybe five seconds to get the steel from the fire to the anvil, pick up the hammer, and set the weld with hammer blows that are not fueled by testosterone-induced rage, but rather gentle and firm. (there are smiths that can weld with a hickory hammer handle!). I generally give my welds several heats, just to make sure they take (mumbling to myself "there ain't no rest for the wicked") The shape of the pieces matters too. Square corners and sharp edges can actually cut into the pieces, weakening the joint. Scarfing is the term for prepping the weld surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 And winning the Indianapolis 500 is just driving in a circle very very fast---funny that more people don't win it! learning the basics of forging *saves* time and effort in the long run. Horrible to have gotten a perfect weld and then burn the piece up as the forge gets slightly off (or melt it if in a gas forge and yes I have seen a fellow melt a billet in a gas forge before.) Having a nice billet and then finding out that you have to remove 3/4 of it due to hammer marks is rough too. So my advice is to put away the billet materials for now and work with high carbon steels and your forge, anvil, hammer set up. When you get to producing knives you are proud of, start thinking again of welding up billets---so that the *only* new factor you have to deal with is the welding. I start my students generally on propane and those who want to learn coal have expressed to me how much more there is to using it---one student calls it a "live" fire as it needs feeding, tending, cleaning up, etc all in addition to the basic "heat and beat" part of forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsalted1 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sounds good I have done four stock removal knives that I am fairly proud of so I am looking forward to trying my hand at forging thanks for the input men Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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