Laughing Dog Forge Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I am in the process of rebuilding my 50 lb Little Giant transitional style hammer with a center clutch pulley. And I need to change the way the motor was mounted. The previous owner built a tower contraption with a jack shaft that worked but was not what I want when I finally mount it permanently to the floor. When I was at Sid's class I saw the one that he sells and liked it. However I was wanting to build my own and wanted to see how others built theirs and what they liked about it and what they would have changed (please post pics). Also any thoughts on mounting the motor on the right or left side as you look at from the front. I don't want to cover up the logo on the right side if I can help it, and it seems that I need to make sure that if I mount it on the left side that it doesn't get in the way when I am forgeing long pieces. I included a pic of my hammer with the original motor contraption and one of a new style LG hammer I saw at Sid's class(well I tried to anyway). And now for question #2, does anyone know what the tolerances should be on the mandrels used for pouring the babbit bearings on the main shaft and on the clutch pulley? I was thinking it should be .002" but wanted to be sure. I need to order some parts from Sid when I get enough cash and was going to ask him then. However I am at the point now where I am almost ready to do the pour and thought I would ask here since I was already here. Thanks everyone in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Not sure about the clearance...too lazy to find the book... As for lefty or righty it doesn't matter from what I've seen. I have 1926 model 50#er that I need to put back together. Seriously thinking of going to Sid's this March. Good luck with yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I use about .010 on the clutch pulley. I don't worry too much about clearance on the shaft you will adjust that with the shim pack. My mandrel for 50s is 2 inch cold rolled polished to a high polish. maybe .001 undersize. Motor mounts if on the left needs to be high try to get it up where the center of the motor and mainshaft are about level. That will keep it out of the way of long stock unless it is really crooked. I prefere the right but it will cover the logo. If you have to replace the main shaft I recomend putting a long new style shaft on it so the clutch will be out the back of the frame. It makes assembly and future maintance much easier( belt replacement and clutch adjustment) All the same parts work just turn them around and put them on the back. Also the belts will be out back and less of a threat to you getting in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsloan Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I agree with the previous posts. Sid's website call for a tolerance of .012-.016 on the clutch pulley. If your going to take this to a machinist also have them turn the inside of the clutch pulley just enough to true it up. I not sure about the thickness of the shim Sid used when he cast the main bearings, Maybe Phil has the thickness. If I had to take a guess I'd say 1/4" inch, but it might be three eights. The motor mounting should not be a problem on either side. Try to use a three hp motor if you have one available though. A two horse will work but three are a little better. For those interested the Rebuild class for this year is going to be set for the 16th and 17 of March. Dave from Diller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Dog Forge Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 Thanks for your reply's. On the main bearings Sid recommends 3/16" shims at the bearing caps. I have looked all over Sid's website and can't find the clutch pulley tolerances so I very much appreciate the information. I am running a 3hp motor, but thanks for mentioning it so others reading this will know. On another note has anyone ever welded up and re-drilled the holes on the toggle arms, crosshead and the ram? Mine are very worn and this needs to be done. I was thinking of MIG welding the holes, but others I talk to suggest to TIG weld them, would either welding process work and should I be concerned with the type of wire or filler rod? Any suggestions for building jigs to hold them for drilling on a drill press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsloan Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 On LG website go to parts and close to the top of the page it says useful on hammers I believe and the tolerances are under that. The arms are cast steel any stand welding wire should work (mig). Well, maybe that's a better question left for Phil? As far as jigs after you've filled the hole Sid has one made out of a piece of channel iron. On one end he has a small slice of pipe probably an inch a quarter in diameter welded on. The slice is of a thickness that it allows the arm to lay level on the channel, with the thin end of the arm resting on the pipe. This keeps the double ended arm and the spring flange level also. He just tacks the arm on to the channel iron, allowing you to drill parallel holes. Hopefully that wasn't to confusing. Dave from Diller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I use ER70S3 MIG wire or the same spec TIG wire. I think the Mig is quicker and just as good for the purpose. try to get a center to center measurement before you weld, badly worn holes just a good guess at center will work as long as you make both arms the same. Dave's description of a jig is good. I drill 1/64 undersize and hone to size but a reamer will work just fine. I do preheat before and normalize after welding. I back up the holes with a piece of thick copper while welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Dog Forge Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Thanks for the description of the jig, I was thinking along the same lines. I like the idea of tack welding it in place keeps me from having to fabricate a clamp. For doing the ram I was thinking I could set it on "v" blocks to keep it perpendicular. I took Sid's class before I disassembled my hammer so I was unaware of the amount of wear on the front moving parts, so I didn't even think to ask him about repair of them, I remember he did use reamers and also suggested using a piece of emery cloth put into a slit cut into a bolt with the head cut off and chucked into a drill as a inexpensive reamer. The machine shop I am using for the lathe work suggested using bolts instead of the pins for the arms so that they would wear before the arms and then replace them on regular maintenance. I was thinking that I could use the bolts along with thrust washers and then tack weld the nut to keep it from backing out. I was wondering what your thoughts were on that. Grade 5 would be softer and wear faster and grade 8's may last longer but could be more brittle. I was thinking the tolerances for the all the holes on the front moving parts should be .003 oversize does the sound reasonable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob S Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 You may be over thinking. These hammers are not precision machines. Never were. Think farm equipment. Is it running now? If so, run it. Fix it when it breaks. Grade 5 or Grade 8?? Try Grade 2. Plenty good enuf. my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drq Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I guess it kinda depends on how you look at your equipment Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacock Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Forget the bolts. Spend your money on an oil can and use it. I make all my pins from 8620 no heat treat. I have seen the holes in the arms and knuckles worn out very quickly by threads in the hole, others tighten the nuts till they crush the arm on the knuckle. There is not much room between the crankplate and crosshead for a nut or bolt head. If you weld the nuts it's a pain in the xxx to take it apart to make sure the oil holes are not clogged ( 2 0r 3 times a year). make good pins put a good cotter key in it oil it and run it. A lot of machinist mean well they just don't understand these hammers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazyassforge Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Laughing Dog, For a picture of the jig for drilling the holes in the arms, look at this link: http://www.papawswrench.com/vboard/index.php?topic=362.0 I have used bolts for the pins before, I used bolts which were long enough to use the unthreaded portion as a pin and cut off the threads and used a cotter pin to hold the pin/bolt in place. Any more, I use a piece of cold rolled mild steel and drill a cotter pin hole at each end. Hope this helps, Bill D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughing Dog Forge Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Thanks Bill for the link, very good pics and info. especially when the author mentioned squaring up the toggle arms to the spring rest, I had not thought of that. That takes some of the fear out of being square. I am going to start making a jig for the arms and cross head. This has been a real slow process with not alot of time and money right now. So while waiting for money to get back in my hobby account it is nice to know there are things I can do in the meantime. I just got finished building new lower link arms on a jig I made. The next step is to repair the holes on the upper toggle arms, crosshead and ram. My ram guide is in real good shape and had about 3/16" of shims when removed so adjustment there should be doable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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