freeman Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Maybe I forgot them at the demo I helped with last weekend, or they could be hiding somewhere in the garage, whatever, I haven't been able to locate my good general purpose tongs for days now. I finally got sick of trying to make due with the miserable pair of twist tongs I made back when I'd been smithing for two weeks and decided to whip up a small pair of bolt head tongs I've been wanting. After rummaging around in the scrap pile for a while I managed to come up with a length of 3/4" round mild steel. A liter and a half of water and three hours later I've a working pair of tongs. Out of sheer perversity I decided to draw the reigns out just to see what kind of suffering is involved. Having done it, I can say with some confidence I don't ever intend to repeat the exercise. If I didn't already know how to forge weld I'd drop everything and go learn it if that meant I never had to draw out another set of reigns. Things I learned along the way:Starting big changes in shape with the heaviest available hammer speeds things up tremendously. If you're tired it's better to take another heat and rest, even if the metal's still at working temps. It takes longer to remove errant hammer marks from loss of control over a heavy hammer than it does to take a breather. Switching to a light hammer for finishing greatly improves control and thus results. A set of friction calipers greatly helps in getting everything the same size. I'll be making a pair next time I'm in the shop. Drawing out reigns by hand is a pointless exercise in human suffering. Weld em. I really wish I had a swage block. On that note, I'm going to go ice my arm. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I have drawn reins by hand (3 pair). Still can't weld. Want to learn, but haven't yet. Things that can help draw down heavy stock is to fuller, then fuller then fuller. Make a series of deep fullers, then work the metal in between the fullers one bump at a time. Another way is to take baby steps and use half face blows to move a small amount of metal quite a distance. Yes, it is a time consuming workout that you probably have better things to do, unless it is an exercise in hammer control and drawing. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Johnnie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Well done Freeman, I made a pair of scroling tongs with a lot less drawing out than yours and that was enough for me! Hope they become your favorite pair!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Nice job Allen! I need to make some more tongs but other things just get in the way. Whenever I set out to make tongs my mind wanders over to, "Oooo lets make this instead!" No self control. I have a demo coming up in Oct. Before I leave I'll take stock in my tools to make sure they all come home. Mark <>< I'm hoping to get to the state fair and hang out at the smithy. Thats really all that I like there any more. Well that and the food. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I was at the State Fair last weekend and had a good time!---Never got out of the SWABA Demo trailer; but a good time none the less! Of course this was the NM State Fair...YMMD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 From watching Mark Aspery and Brian Brazeal videos on YouTube, I have learned the value of drawing over the horn with a rounded hammer face. It has made a significant difference in my forging efficiency. I like the horn and a rounded hammer better than more aggressive fullers; I find the horn moves metal much more smoothly. I find it easier to get a nice, even taper and avoid ugly mistakes. (Obviously there are some circumstances in which a small radius fuller is absolutely necessary -- but there are many in which it isn't.) I have drawn reins by hand (3 pair). Still can't weld. Want to learn, but haven't yet. Phil, the key to learning to weld is to use wrought iron. It'll make you look good. With wrought, I can sometimes almost deceive some casual observers into believing that I know what I'm doing. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Phil, the key to learning to weld is to use wrought iron. It'll make you look good. With wrought, I can sometimes almost deceive some casual observers into believing that I know what I'm doing. I think going 30+ days between forge sessions has more to do with my inability to weld than anything At least my hammer control doesn't fall to nothing in that time, it just isn't improving very much. I do want to mess with some real wrought iron, eventually. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeman Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Nice job Allen! I need to make some more tongs but other things just get in the way. Whenever I set out to make tongs my mind wanders over to, "Oooo lets make this instead!" No self control. I have a demo coming up in Oct. Before I leave I'll take stock in my tools to make sure they all come home. Mark <>< I'm hoping to get to the state fair and hang out at the smithy. Thats really all that I like there any more. Well that and the food. I know what you're saying. Most of the prior occasions I've tried to force myself to make tongs I'd get one blank made and then decide I'd rather make a bunch of something else than spend the time required to finish the pair. Then again that was when I had the luxury of a decent pair of all-around tongs. I'm digging the bolt head tongs but it's looking like they don't handle smaller stock well at all so it looks like I'll be making another set here in the next couple days. Give me a holler when you're headed to the fair, I may just pop in and say hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I'm digging the bolt head tongs but it's looking like they don't handle smaller stock well at all so it looks like I'll be making another set here in the next couple days. Define "small stock". Why would bolt tongs not do what you need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeman Posted September 19, 2011 Author Share Posted September 19, 2011 Define "small stock". Why would bolt tongs not do what you need? Small as in 1/4" or smaller square or round stock, the fiddly little stuff I make hooks and bottle openers out of while I'm waiting for larger stock to soak. The pair of tongs I made are sized for the larger stock I've been using and don't get a good bite on anything smaller than 3/8" or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 I guess you need to make more tongs then, sizing to 1/4 inch is no trick, just needs done. On the other hand you can make rather lightweight tongs for the lightweight task of working 1/4 inch steel. You probably can start with 3/8 or 1/2 inch stock and be fine. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 Brian Brazeal was just in Minnesota for a conference last weekend. He made a horese head out of 1" square and then drew the 1": bar out into a steak turner with a very sharp point all by hand no power tools he also did not weld on smaller stock. I did not watch the whole process but he was using over the far side of the anvil blows and turned every hit bringing it toward him also every hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I've found it easier on really small tongs to just use one "V" jaw and make the other one narrow so it fits inside the "V" and grabs the work on three points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeman Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share Posted September 20, 2011 I've found it easier on really small tongs to just use one "V" jaw and make the other one narrow so it fits inside the "V" and grabs the work on three points. Greatly appreciated. I'd been idly mulling over what jaw shape to go for on the smaller stuff. I don't currently have the tooling I'd need to make the tooling I'd need to make a true pair of wolf's jaw tongs, so I'll give your hybrid v design a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeman Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thanks again for the suggestion Grant! I dug up a set of tong blanks I'd been fiddling with at a demo a couple weeks ago and finished them up as a small pair of half v bolt head tongs. They aren't as clean as I'd like but they work like a charm and welding the reins on made the work go a lot faster than the last set I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason @ MacTalis Ironworks Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I have drawn reins by hand (3 pair). Still can't weld. Want to learn, but haven't yet. Things that can help draw down heavy stock is to fuller, then fuller then fuller. Make a series of deep fullers, then work the metal in between the fullers one bump at a time. Another way is to take baby steps and use half face blows to move a small amount of metal quite a distance. Yes, it is a time consuming workout that you probably have better things to do, unless it is an exercise in hammer control and drawing. Phil Phil, I am up by Cleveland, no clue where you are, but if you want to learn to forge weld, I can teach ANYONE so long as they are willing to learn. Too many people make too much of a deal about welding. it is honestly one of the easiest things we do as blacksmiths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 One of the advantages of drawing out the reins is that you can make you tongs using spring and they will be lighter and feel much better in your hand. They also work better, they will hold tight without bending. Half hammer face blows far side of the anvil or use a bottom fuller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Phil, I am up by Cleveland, no clue where you are, but if you want to learn to forge weld, I can teach ANYONE so long as they are willing to learn. Too many people make too much of a deal about welding. it is honestly one of the easiest things we do as blacksmiths. I have family in that area, I grew up in Lakewood, but live a little north of Columbus currently. I'll pm you. Maybe my daughter can have some Grandparents time. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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