TomN Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Hi all. I'm just starting out and have booked myself on a days beginners course with the blacksmith guild, for saturday the 17th. Hopefully i'm going to really enjoy the course and have a natural apptitude for the work. If I do, I am going to want to practice! I will need to make a small and mobile forge, that can be used in my back garden and then wheeled away, probably to my garage. Sadly I can't weld, so can't make one totaly from scratch. I'm willing to put a lot of effort in though and will start looking to source parts asap. Does anyone have any tips, or advice on how to make a simple forge for me? All help appreciated. In terms of fire safety, would it be advisable to have a bucket of sand and a water fire extinguiser near when forging? Thanks! TomN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisG Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Hello Tom and welcome to the IFI forums. Could you put your location in so smiths local to your area can help you out easier. Don't be shy about questions. Post pics of your adventures in smithing and have lots of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Hi Tom, if you look through the posts on this thread you will find loads of ideas, Also we can sort something out on the course when you have tried using coke and a side blast, although for home use I would suggest a bottom blast, easier to make and requires less floorspace. There are some at Westpoint you can look at or even try if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Yes to the water, yes to the fire extinguisher, if you have a bucket of sand too, all the better. If the drum is not handy you can use an old steel shelf or a piece of sheet metal. If the brake drum is not handy you can clay the pan, or use some bricks. The air is provided by some pipe or tubing. 3 inch is ideal, and exhaust pipe is easy to get, but iron pipe such as water pipe works. you may want to strip any zinc off the piece closest to the fire. Having an ash dump is good. if you cannot weld you can use aluminum dryer duct to provide air to a straight pipe with a hole in the side. The ash dump can be made from a hose clamp, coupling nut, piece of sheet metal and a bolt. Just crush the aluminum duct around, it will hold up for quite a while, but it is not durable. If you ask nicely at the muffler shop you may get enough pipe to do the job. An old hair drier can provide air. There are many better air sources. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 You can also dig a shallow hole in the yard, and use a piece of 1 inch pipe on a hair dryer for a side draft forge. A shovel helps, but is not necessary. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I think a side blast is much easier to make. Take any metal container, drill a 2 or 3 inch hole in the side, pass a pipe into it, stopping short of the center, line with ashes or kitty litter (the cheapest clay stuff) so the bottom is a couple inches below the pipe, attach air source to the other end (make sure the pipe is long enough that if you use something plastic for the air it won't melt/burn) and Voila forge. That describes my first one that if the legs hadn't rusted to nothing i'd still be using. ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Another idea for a blower that people have extra's of are yard decoration inflation motors... You know, the big snow globes around Christmas, or the giant pumpkins at Halloween. This Stuff http://www.ebay.com/itm/HALLOWEEN-AIRBLOWN-INFLATABLE-LIGHTED-GHOSTS-DECORATION-/150657686897?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2313e5dd71 Anyway they have thick plastic squirrel cage blowers in them (or at least some do). After a few years the nylon starts to rot but the fan is still good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Another idea for a blower that people have extra's of are yard decoration inflation motors... You know, the big snow globes around Christmas, or the giant pumpkins at Halloween. I've heard that those work well. I have one that my neighbor gave me but I haven't used it on a forge yet. It pumps out twice as much air as I would need for my forge. I don't know if they can be rheostat controlled but if they can then they'd about ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Air gates. Rheostats on most motors is not a good idea. A simple shutter can control your air easily, and having a waste gate also may help. The smaller decorations use a computer case fan, so you need the big decoration or bounce house fans. With one of those you can drive several forges at once. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 Air gates. Rheostats on most motors is not a good idea. I know. But on motors that can be rheostat controlled you can quiet them down by running them slower. It's a more elegant solution than just blowing off wasted air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I use a bilge exhaust fan I got off eBay for my forge. It blows plenty of air and is QUIET :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Hall Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I use a scavenged vacuum cleaner motor, its rigged in a section of sewer pipe and i limit the amount of air too it too control flow, it is loud though, I will have to try the yard blower thing I bet thats way quieter. Love this forum for that people always coming up with great ideas and sharing them on here. As for tips on first forge, everyone has their wants and dont wants and must haves in a forge, I recomend doing the cheapest fastest thing to get you going, hammer a bit then you will have a lot better idea of what you personally will want. The old brake drum rig is a fast easy build and will get you started quick. The type of stuff you will be making has a lot to do with as well, me personally I have a coal froge outside and a gas forge inside, I do almost all of my tool steel stuff in the gas forge these days, but you will find as many people that hate that as you do who would agree. joining IFI is a great start though, these guys are tons of help on all things. If I could ever get my gallery to work I have some really detailed build pics of both forges, but I didnt do anything original, my coal forge is a simple barrel forge, and my gas forge is a propane tank rig almost identical to the freon ones so many guys have on here. Dont fall victim to information overload though just pick something you like and go for it, its really pretty simple............ then after you get a good start and are addicted to the work start customizing your equipment to suit you. Thats one of the joys of it.............. just wait till you start making tongs lol............... I think I make a pair a week, can never have enough variety there lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polecat smith Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Hi, Tom. Do a Google search on the "dry-stacked masonry forge." You should find an article on a forge design that is assembled from various types of concrete block, firebrick, and a piece of black pipe. No welding required. It's a side-blast design. (I agree with several other posts here that the side-blast forge is probably the easiest to build.) I've used it, and it works quite well. I've used it on stock up to 5/8 inch, including forge welds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Thanks for all the info guys! John B has possibly found me a good deal on a forge and anvil. Just need to convince the wife to let me buy it now. Wish me luck! haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Sorry for the double post guys, but i've got quite an important question. Where am I going to be able to do some forging work, when at home? I live in a built up, residential area. I have a small back garden, but I don't think my neighbours will be happy with me hammering metal all the time. Let alone the smell of the forge. I could try and do it in my garage, but there are similar problems there. Plus if I burn it down, I won't be insured, as I am living in a rented property at the moment. Anyone got any bright ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I forge in my back yard in a surburban development. I haven't had a complaint in the 5 months I've been at this. Coal smoke isn't bad once you get the fire going good. But even less obtrusive is lump charcoal. And if you take steps to quiet your anvil and limit your work to reasonable hours then you shouldn't have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Sorry for the double post guys, but i've got quite an important question. Where am I going to be able to do some forging work, when at home? I live in a built up, residential area. I have a small back garden, but I don't think my neighbours will be happy with me hammering metal all the time. Let alone the smell of the forge. I could try and do it in my garage, but there are similar problems there. Plus if I burn it down, I won't be insured, as I am living in a rented property at the moment. Anyone got any bright ideas? If you are using coke there is not that much smell, Forge at a reasonable time, Have words with the neighbours and assess their response, Have them round for a BBQ and show show them what you have made on the course and how you want to do more, you can bribe them with a BBQ butler or two you have learnt how to make, good practice and PR for you, With careful use (depending on what else you have in the garage), it really is not a great fire risk. Otherwise get together with others in the area who have an interest and see if you can come to some arrangement with premises. We have had quite a few who have been on courses from the Oxford area. You may find some of the neighbours may even want to join in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 I was thinking that I could manage the fire risk in the garage, by having a bucket of sand with me at all times, as well as a water fire extinguisher. If I could find others in the Oxfordshire area that were forging too, a joint premesis would be brilliant. We could all learn from each other as well and help each other. That might be a bit down the road though..... Think I will try and go look at this forge and anvil and set of tools after the course, next Saturday. Would rather not have to make the journey down there and back twice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Talk to the neighbors, they may be OK with some noise for a few hours during the day, if they are home. Use charcoal or breeze coke, or learn good fire management of coal, and start with coke or charcoal, never green coal. Fasten your anvil down tight, and wrap the waist in chain to help quiet it. Provide knick knacks such as small pieces of artwork or useful things like cooking tools for their patience. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomN Posted September 11, 2011 Author Share Posted September 11, 2011 The good deal on the start up set, that JohnB let me know about has been sold, so i'm back looking for a forge again. Will look up the dry stacked masonry forge. I guess ebay is a way to go for looking for bits of kit as well. How does wrapping a chain round the anvil keep it quiet? Theres probaby an obvious answer, but i'm tired! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 Anvils ring like a bell. The chain "mutes" it by having to vibrate, and taking energy from the ring to do this. Secure fastening acts like a violin bridge mute in that mass is added to dampen the vibrations. Putting a large magnet under the heel acts similar to both. An "anvil mute" which is basically a U that fits snug in the pritchel and hooked over the edge, fitting snug to the edge too, is a localized way of adding mass and having something that vibrates to absorb some vibration. The thin heel on some anvils are particularly loud. I use secure fastening and chain around the anvil waist. I still wear hearing protection. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polecat smith Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I set my anvil on a sandbox, and that seems to me to be quieter than a stump, which is more rigid and doesn't dampen the anvil's vibrations as much. Other advantages of a sandbox are that the anvil on sand doesn't move around much when you hit it, so I don't have to fasten mine down, and it's easy to make fine adjustments on the height--just add or remove some sand as needed. The downsides are that a large box of sand like that will be HEAVY, so you would probably want to find a good spot and leave it there, and if it's outside, you'll need to keep it covered to keep the weather out. I screw down a piece of plywood over the top of mine when I'm not using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Hall Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 I use a magnet like Phill mentioned , I dont know if its less or more effective than chain as Ive never tried chain, I have an anvil on a stump outside, and an anvil on a purpose built anvil stand full of sand inside......... the outside one will soon be on a sand box too, but I have to disagree a bit with that not being as solid as a stump, I think its way better myself, the weight really helps, but reading ploecats post again I think maybe mine is a bit different than his, I do not set my anvil directly on the sand, but rather on a a board that rides on the sand, this still lets me add sand for height adjust, but makes a much larger surface area in contact with the sand, I love it, its rock solid quiet and heavy as all get out. Ill put my decibel meter on it today and check the actuall noise reading, but its really not as loud as I thaught it would be inside, If smell is a concern then maybe look at building a propane forge, I think you mentioned doing it inside your garage and that would probaly be a bit better for an inside situation than coal anyway, you will need really good ventilation with propane, but not a flu, as well as great ventilation like you would with coal forge indoors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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