RyanErnst Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 okay well... never really seeing anything in-use first hand or told about it, i was simply wondering how fast the average charcoal forge blows through the fuel, it seems im putting more in every other heat and i blew through a weeks worth of work for charcoal alot faster than i'd like to, i dont have any pictures or anything but im just wondering some things i could do to help or if anythings even wrong to begin with, my firepots about 4 inches deep, about 6 inches long and about 4 inches wide, or mabye it's just the charcoal, i dont know but thanks in advance to answer my little newbie question :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_bluegrass Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 You'll use a greater volume of charcoal than coal because charcoal is less dense than coal. You should use about the same mass. You will feed the fire more often than with coal as well. If you don't need to heat as long a section of steel as you currently are heating, you can cut the length back some. I typically used 4 X 4 X 5 inches deep for most forging when I was using charcoal on a regular basis. I did go longer (up to 8 inches) when heat treating. If your air is on constantly, shutting that down when not heating a piece will help. Or if you are pushing too much air through, then cutting the air back will help. Having a well insulated forge will help. Or what you describe may be the best you'll get. A lot of people go by volume (easy to look at a pile and estimate how big it is, hard to estimate the weight of said pile) and if you are judging how much used by volume then you'll think you're using a lot more than and equivalent amount of coal. ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 What he said. Coal is several times as dense as charcoal (exactly how much more dense depends on a lot of variables), so you'll have to add charcoal much faster than you do coal. I started out with a charcoal forge and used to have to add some fuel after nearly every heat, even using a hand cranked blower. I probably wasn't very efficient, but the point remains. On a per BTU basis, coal is probably more economical unless you're making your own charcoal from free wood. Even then, your labor is worth something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 If you have an electric blower put it on a foot switch so it's only on when you are standing on it---helps a lot. Charcoal is better off with a hand crank blower or bellows. When I use charcoal I generally place a couple of firebricks to make my firepot narrower and taller. I often make a fire in a raised firepit and transfer hot cols to the forge as needed in a just in time charcoal production system. This way I don't have to have the heat or smoke of it coaling in my forge but don't have to *buy* it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanErnst Posted July 27, 2011 Author Share Posted July 27, 2011 well thanks for the info, i'll try a smaller pot never needed the one as big as i got i just figured if i needed it i mightaswell have it but i can easily make changes, and ill just have to make alot more charcoal when i can again and stockpile as much of it as i can it's not exactly hard to do its just annoying but worth it specialy since i have no other means of fuels around here besides berqquets and i really dont want to go to those, as far as blowers go im just useing a hair dryer constantly messing with it finding the perfect air volume, so now i know this has been bugging me for awhile thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poundhound Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 what about coke vs coal, I am hoping to pick up a solid fuel forge soon. is it true that the coke burns cleaner, with less smoke? PoundHound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Wow I live in a small NM town and I can buy propane from 3 different places at 9pm on a Sunday, you must really be out there if briquettes are the only fuel available! (It's why a lot of smiths have moved to propane forges---too hard to get good solid fuel!) Commercial coke does burn very clean and very hot but it needs an electric blower and is a lot harder to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe C B Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Not intending to side rail the thread... just add this weekends "coal" expierence. I had the forge, (Centar w/ small hand blower) going all day Saturday and Sunday at the Maker Faire here in Dearborn MI. Not doing anything heavy, mostly making nails to hand out to the kids, along with the story of how the little ones would have been the "nail smiths" back in the 1700's ... "no nails = no dinner". Anyhow... I was surprised that I only burned one 5 gal bucket of coal all weekend, and from that I had, I'm guessing no more that 2 handfulls of ash. Good coal and/ or good fire control, I guess! Joe B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I appreciate this info too. I have just completed a little double bellows whose stream of air can be felt across a two-car garage. I have already welded up a brake drum forge tuyere with dump, but haven't clayed it in as yet. I also have 1 1/2 55 gallon drums full of "pallet charcoal" waiting to be used. my next plans are to build a Lively-style tub forge. My only beef at this point is the hassle of moving all of the stuff out into the back yard to light up and bang. I don't have any kind of shed or shop, and currenly just work with my freon tank forge in the garage. I built the bellows specifically for charcoal, figuring it didn't need as much air. I will put up pics soon, but, regretably did not take many during construction (over a 1 year period) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Build your lively forge in an Ex propane grill with the cover. Then you can leave it out in the yard looking like a BBQ and only move the bellows. I have my propane forge built on a propane grill "cart" so I can move it in and out of the secure shop to the forging "carport". I pulled the grill part off and scrapped it for the Al and then mounted a sheet of steel across the gap where the grill sat and then mounted my gas forge on the sheet of steel. Holds the propane tank underneath too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 what about coke vs coal, I am hoping to pick up a solid fuel forge soon. is it true that the coke burns cleaner, with less smoke? PoundHound Coal turns into coke when it burns. You actually forge with coke, adding more coal to the edge of the fire to slowly turn into coke. Coke will smoke less when starting, but I find coal easier to light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Thomas, (head slap) "why didn't I think of that!!". thanks for the great idea. I could probably even slip that on past my loving wife. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Gorrell Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Hi. I am a beginner and am trying to use lump charcoal also. Since it doesn't clump and make the crust the way coal does I am not sure what the fire is supposed to be like. I have tried to get a good heat a few times and am noticeing that the coals have lots of voids and not good contact with the metal being heated. Also, I use hand crank blower and don't know if I need more air to get the coals hotter or less air to keep from blowing the whole thing apart. I saw a youtube vid that looked like the guy was putting the air to it pretty good during the heat. Maybe I am being stingy with the charcoal? Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 You need a deeper fire with charcoal than coal and not nearly as much air with charcoal as coal. SLOW DOWN! Remember that all the japanese and viking swords were forged solely with charcoal. To use charcoal in my coal forge I take two firebricks and place them on their sides an inch or so away from the tuyere, one on each side to make a trough forge. The size of the chunks do make a difference. In the japanese tradition the apprentice spends 1 year cutting charcoal into 1" cubes before going on to other things. Me I pour the charcoal on the top and when it catches I whap it with my light fire rake causing it to break into smaller pieces. The workpiece goes higher in the fuel pile than it does with coal you want several inches of charcoal between it and the tuyere (the exact distance is dependent on a lot of stuff so try 3" and move *UP* if you are not getting what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Gorrell Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Wow, was I ever screwing it up. Thanks for the advise. I will apply your advise the next time I get time to bang around. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pault17 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Thomas, I wish I lived closer. you'd have to kick me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Nah you'd just decide I was a mouthy hobbit with a glandular problem (I've been smithing for over 30 years now, often in a medieval and renaissance context and so have done a lot of odd stuff. I've been helped by a lot of folk too and try to "pay it on". Always better to profit by someone else's mistakes so you can go on and make your own new and improved ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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