Unforgivun Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Currently I go to my brother-in-law's house and we use his forge whenever I want to do something hammer related. I would like to build my own and have some ideas that I was hoping to get some feedback on. They might be bad ideas, I dunno. I'm currently interested in making a coal forge out of an old stainless sink. The plan is to cut the sink in half (its got 2 identical sides) and use one side as the forge and one side mounted up top as a hood and put it inside my less than air-tight garage. The forge side would be clayed using the mixture that I see Phil has committed to memory and mounted against the wall. My garage is another DIY project and the entire structure is made from steel pipe welded together. The outside is covered in a buttler type corregated steel (somewhat heavy 14g). So, is there any reason not to use the sink bottom? Is that clay going to be fine for it? Should I put a layer of clay on the wall behind where I mount the forge? Thanks for the help in advance :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Currently I go to my brother-in-law's house and we use his forge whenever I want to do something hammer related. I would like to build my own and have some ideas that I was hoping to get some feedback on. They might be bad ideas, I dunno. I'm currently interested in making a coal forge out of an old stainless sink. The plan is to cut the sink in half (its got 2 identical sides) and use one side as the forge and one side mounted up top as a hood and put it inside my less than air-tight garage. The forge side would be clayed using the mixture that I see Phil has committed to memory and mounted against the wall. My garage is another DIY project and the entire structure is made from steel pipe welded together. The outside is covered in a buttler type corregated steel (somewhat heavy 14g). So, is there any reason not to use the sink bottom? Is that clay going to be fine for it? Should I put a layer of clay on the wall behind where I mount the forge? Thanks for the help in advance I think you'd want to clay the whole thing, both to protect it to and to shrink the sink down to something a size appropriate for a firepot. Most kitchen sinks I've seen are way too large (and too deep) for that purpose, unless you're planning to do a lot of very large work. But that much clay will make it darned heavy. Are you planning to attach a chimney of some sort that vents outside the shop? I ask only because you mention the shop not being airtight, and I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Are you planning to attach a chimney of some sort that vents outside the shop? I ask only because you mention the shop not being airtight, and I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at. I am planning on attaching a chimney. Some people assume garage means both attached to the house and tight enough to hold in CO2, mine is neither, but I plan on installing a chimney anyway, just figured I would use the other half of the sink as a hood and mount it above. This is a fairly shallow sink as well, 5 1/4" or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmazingo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 The SS sink is fairly thin the intense heat and countless cycles would take a toll, if it is not insulated. Matt is right about the size, if it is a standard kitchen sink. But on the up side it gives you plenty of room for insulating clay. I would base the finished bowl or fire pot on the size of those manufactured by companies such as centaurforge. If you are going to mount it to the wall, be sure you use a non flameable material behind it. Over all though, it sounds like a plan in the making. Nothing like having your own forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I am planning on attaching a chimney. Some people assume garage means both attached to the house and tight enough to hold in CO2, mine is neither, but I plan on installing a chimney anyway, just figured I would use the other half of the sink as a hood and mount it above. This is a fairly shallow sink as well, 5 1/4" or so. Ah, good. Then I think you may be onto something. I still suggest claying the whole thing (1"-2" on the bottom should give you a good fire pot depth and enough protection), and using firebricks or clay if necessary to adjust the interior dimensions of the pot to an efficient size. As far as attaching the forge directly to the wall of the shop, as long as the wall is all steel I'd think it would be fine -- just make sure it can support the weight. (I think I'd add some legs to the front of the forge, just to be sure.) It sounds like there'll be air circulating around the back of the forge no matter what, due to the corrugated walls. And the clay will insulate things some. The other sink half may or may not work as a hood. It may need some modifications. The chimney is pretty important even if your shop isn't air tight. Homoglobin likes carbon monoxide -- CO -- much better than it likes oxygen, and once the CO is in your blood it stays there for a good while. So you can certainly poison yourself in a non-air tight structure. And there's lots of other nasty stuff in coal smoke, too. So proper ventilation really is important. Use a big enough chimney -- a lot of folks here seem to recommend 12". 8" seems to be an absolute minimum, and many don't think it's big enough. (I don't actually know what sizes we have on the coal forges at the shop where I do most of my smithing. Two of the forges have masonry chimneys, and the other two are large, but probably double-walled.) By the way, I'm envisioning a side draft chimney. That's what I'm familiar with. If you're thinking of an overhead hood, I think it'd have to be much larger than sink sized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 By the way, I'm envisioning a side draft chimney. That's what I'm familiar with. If you're thinking of an overhead hood, I think it'd have to be much larger than sink sized. Hmm, might be right, I was hoping since the fire wouldn't be the entire size of the sink that it might work, also, I was planning on putting about a 75cfm fan in it (yes its a bathroom fan, but Its still an "idea" atm the moment) and was thinking that should pull a good bit out. Maybe not though. Might be best to test it out outside on Jeff's forge first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Hmm, might be right, I was hoping since the fire wouldn't be the entire size of the sink that it might work, also, I was planning on putting about a 75cfm fan in it (yes its a bathroom fan, but Its still an "idea" atm the moment) and was thinking that should pull a good bit out. Maybe not though. Might be best to test it out outside on Jeff's forge first. The fan would certainly help, but if you look at fume hoods they're typically much larger, and a much different shape, than a kitchen sink. If you're going to use a bathroom fan you'll need to make sure it draws in a lot of fresh air to cool the exhaust before it gets to the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Read this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Check out the Hofi style chimney. http://www.iforgeiron.com/page/index.html/_/blueprints/uri-hofi-series/bp1048-side-draft-chimney-r175 Dave, (Fireyfurnace) built one and took pictures. http://custerfamilyfarm.com/blog1/index.php?blog=4&s=Hofi+hood&submit=Search&sentence=AND Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Check out the Hofi style chimney. http://www.iforgeiron.com/page/index.html/_/blueprints/uri-hofi-series/bp1048-side-draft-chimney-r175 Dave, (Fireyfurnace) built one and took pictures. http://custerfamilyfarm.com/blog1/index.php?blog=4&s=Hofi+hood&submit=Search&sentence=AND Phil Ty Matt and Ty Phil... I might just go the old school route and keep the sink whole then, clay one side and use the other as a quench basin. I'm really liking the side draft Idea, and at first glance I thought it would have to stick 4' out of the garage, but it looks like I really just need to clear the edge of the roof. It looks so much cleaner as well. Neat little box there and nothing huge up top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javan C.R. Dempsey Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Been meaning to make a charcoal forge out of a SS sink for quite a while. With coal, you'll likely have to adjust the depth, but it's definitely a good use for a sink. There's already a hole in the bottom to work with, you could even hook a drain up to the slack side if you decide to use it for water, hell, while you're at it, run a faucet! ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musk-rat Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 My wife's first forge was mad from an SS sink we found at the local traders market. We linded it with clay and refractory cement. We also sunk an old 8" tractor wheel in it for the fire pot. She has been using it for two years now at least 3 times a month with no issues. It was a good starter forge to learn from. If I did it again, I would have used a old brake rotor or drum with some slits in the side to pass longer pieces through. Use what ya got, we all have to start somewhere:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hmm, I was just planning on the pot being the clay mixture. Do I really need a cast pot like a drum or rotor? I have access to all types of those, I just didn't really think it was necessary with that much clay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 double posted on accident :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Clay is fine. Cast iron is fine. No need to use both. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Good deal... Is there any particular advantage of one over the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Good deal... Is there any particular advantage of one over the other? Clay is cheaper, less durable, difficult to repair but easy to replace, vs cast iron. If you can get broken bags at the local big box you can line several forges for $2. Cast iron or welded mild steel is more permanent, and especially if you measure your fuel consumption in tons per year will be easier to deal with. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Clay is cheaper, less durable, difficult to repair but easy to replace, vs cast iron. If you can get broken bags at the local big box you can line several forges for $2. Cast iron or welded mild steel is more permanent, and especially if you measure your fuel consumption in tons per year will be easier to deal with. Phil Ok, setting costs aside (i have what I need for either application) would it make sense to bring a pipe up and then use a brake drum in the center of the sink? I know its not required, but it would give me and area around the center in which I could sit tongs and such (small area) I think (not sure really) but I think it would add alot less weight as well, maybe not as much insulation for the sink against the heat though. I like the idea of the brake drum lasting for a long time for a simple forge, but also like the idea of the sink not getting so hot it falls apart INSIDE my shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Don't know what you plan to make; but it you intend to make edged tools or other high carbon stuff having a quenchtank so close to the firepot is like storing your shotgun shells on top of your wood stove! I hardy ever quench stuff; usually only "cold" metal (say under 500 degF) to make it holdable in a hand and a lidded bucket off to the side does me fine most of the last 30+ years I've been smithing. When I want to harden a piece I have special quench tanks full of oil or salt water that have lids on them during other times. For some reason open quench tanks seem to exert an almost magnetic influence on non-magnetic high carbon steel and *MANY* smiths will have a tale of how an almost perfect blade or tool that was almost done after hours of work have managed to find an open quench tank and crack into unusable pieces... The *old* smiths using zero carbon wrought iron freely quenched their work as it wouldn't harden/break or crack! We are not them. We forge a different material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgivun Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 Don't know what you plan to make; but it you intend to make edged tools or other high carbon stuff having a quenchtank so close to the firepot is like storing your shotgun shells on top of your wood stove! For some reason open quench tanks seem to exert an almost magnetic influence on non-magnetic high carbon steel and *MANY* smiths will have a tale of how an almost perfect blade or tool that was almost done after hours of work have managed to find an open quench tank and crack into unusable pieces... Thanks Thomas... This means I can lower the sort of permanent footprint of the forge mounted into my garage. I don't really know what I plan to make, at this point I'm still learning and constantly see a few things of different variations that I'd like to make. So if its just easier to use a bucket with a lid, then that seems easy enough to me. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 For some reason open quench tanks seem to exert an almost magnetic influence on non-magnetic high carbon steel and *MANY* smiths will have a tale of how an almost perfect blade or tool that was almost done after hours of work have managed to find an open quench tank and crack into unusable pieces... Fortunately, the piece of leaf spring that I dropped into the slack tub had not yet absorbed a lot of time and effort. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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