Dreaming of Bending Metal Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Hello Everyone. I'm not sure if I am posting in the correct section of this forum, as you can tell I'm newly registered, if I'm in the wrong please let me know... I suppose this is where my blathering should begin.. Since I was a child I've been interested in blacksmithing, Now 27, I still find that when I read a book that describes the heat of the forge on ones face, shaping metal - actually creating something - I feel the excitement and interest renewed. Since then I've been to war and back, have 2 young sons. a job.. and now feel trapped behind a computer desk 20 hours out of the day. Recently diagosed with CKD I've been making many life changes these past 2 years and have decided one more will be learning to shape metal. While learning has to take to a backseat to my work schedule at first, I should be able to free a weekend here and there.. I'm looking for guidance and was wondering if there are classes locally or perhaps someone working on there own that wants some help. Thanks for reading all of this nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Welcome aboard. There are plenty of classes to take, but it helps if we know where you are, IFI is represented all around the Earth. Have a look about. There is a wealth of information here! Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 I recommend attending and/or visiting the blacksmith guild closest to you, one guild in the maryland area is: The Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland and their website is: http://www.bgcmonline.org/ The guild offers classes, and there is a meeting coming up this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksmith Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Well hello and welcome aboard! Let me first say Thank You for your wartime service and offer you my sympathies on your diagnosis. I'm no doctor, but I'd check with my physician to be sure that the physical demands of the work (lifting/hammering/standing) will not cause undue damage to those kidneys and worsen your condition. Most of us are hobbyists and work at our own pace anyway so take it slow. In any case, I think you'll find iforgeiron to be the most valuable resource that a blacksmith at any level can have for advice and information. You can also join a local guild if there are any in your area. I'm not sure what part of Maryland you're in, but I know there is one in the Carroll County area and we are just founding one in Western Maryland in the Washington County area (where I live). We've only been at it a few months, but it's been nice to get together in person with others who share your interests. We all learn from each other that way and usually have a good time doing it. Well, I've done enough rambling for the moment, but I'm sure others will have more to say. In the meantime, browse the site and take it all in. It will take a while! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junksmith Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Looks like some others beat me to the punch on the guild thing. Sorry guys - I type slow :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaming of Bending Metal Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Thanks for the welcome and the information, I'm about an hour south of Westminster, MD (Where the Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland is located) in Germantown, MD. I've contacted them as well but there seems to be a shortage of classes until much later in the year. In the meantime I'll continue to read and start to peice meal a beginners set together I suppose. So far, I've read about fuels and some different variations of iron. I'd like to start a class where I can make my first hammer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Welcome aboard, glad to have ya. It's already been said but we're a preoccupied bunch and not so likely to remember you said where you're at in the subject so putting your general location in your header might save you having to say it again and again. Might as I say. This is a personal thing with me but I like to address folk by name though it isn't necessary, I'll talk complete strangers to distraction and beyond. So classes are full, attend a meeting and talk to the guys. You'll learn more watching for half and hour than months of trying to learn on your own. Better still, you'll be meeting guys who live relatively close with the addiction, most of us are usually looking for playmates and willing to show them the tricks. You'll find lots of us have a medical condition or two to deal with, I'm type II diabetic and a recent TBI survivor. Dealing with stuff is a large part of blacksmithing to begin with, adding a few physical or mental hurdles is just icing. The point being, there're guys here dealing with something similar and we're good at brainstorming. Now, build a fire, heat some iron/steel and beat it into submission! Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Welcome to the IFI family. It looks like there are classes at BGCM this summer. Both beginning and intermediate. I can say, from personal experience, that the instructors are both excellent. I would recommend taking a beginners class first, and learn basic blacksmithing skills. Hammer classes usually assume you already have blacksmithing skills. BGCM will provide all the equipment you need for classes (hammer, tongs, etc... if you don't already have your own. In any case, both BGCM and BGOP have frequent meetings and open forge sessions where there would be folks that would be happy to help you get started. Check their websites for dates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Greetings from North Carolina! Welcome to IFI. There are more brains here to pipck for information than you can stake a shick at. If you have any questions about specific subjects, please browse thru the forums and use the search box. Chances are really good that it has been addressed before. But if you just want to get it fresh off the farm, then ask away. You will receive plenty of answers and opinions. Even the opinions are good. They usually come from experience, good and bad. Like Phil said, there are blacksmiths from all over the world here on a daily basis. Russia, Australia, UK, US, Canada, China, Baton Rouge (just kidding Danny). Everyone brings something different to the table and most all is edible for brain consumption. Do you have any idea what type of forge you will be using? Coal, charcoal, gas, did I mention coal? Glad to have you join the ranks of the obsessed/passioned, habit/hobbied, men and women from around the earth. Mark <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Thanks for the welcome and the information, I'm about an hour south of Westminster, MD (Where the Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland is located) in Germantown, MD. I've contacted them as well but there seems to be a shortage of classes until much later in the year....... If you come to the meeting on July 17th 2011, and join the guild and sign the release forms.... members are allowed to use the forges and equipment in the blacksmithing school and there is no shortage of people to assist you in your learning on a one-on-one basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaming of Bending Metal Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 David - That will be in westminster, md correct? If so, I'm definately going. - Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Welcome. I'm glad to see that Dave Hammer already mentioned BGOP as an alternative; it may actually be slightly closer to you than BGCM, although with traffic it may not be a shorter drive. BGOP generally has two meetings per month, on the first and third Fridays, unless there's some sort of special event going on. Check the website calendar for details. There's typically some open forge time before and after the meetings, although it tends to be crowded. Members are also free to use the shop at other times, and are permitted bring guests. (There is a two-person rule on shop use, for safety reasons.) So if you might like to come down on a weekend, send me a PM. I don't make many of the formal meetings, but there are five or ten of us who get together at the shop pretty regularly on weekends, and occasionally weeknights. So while it's a long haul for you, there are definitely lots of opportunities for forge time. That way you don't have to buy (or make) tools and build forges just to get a taste of smithing. At least one of the members also teaches classes fairly regularly. They usually meet on Thursday nights for something like six or eight weeks (I forget), for around three hours at a time. The cost is pretty reasonable; if you break it down to an hourly fee I think it comes out to something like $10/hour, and that includes tools and material. Again, check the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 David - That will be in westminster, md correct? If so, I'm definately going.- Nathan Yes that meeting will be at: The Carroll County Farm Museum which is located at 500 South Center Street in Westminster, Maryland. There are eight forges in the blacksmithing school, and with eight forges there are usually several that are open for use. Westminster is approximately 35.84 mi from Boyds, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaming of Bending Metal Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 Wow thanks! I'm really glad that there are places to go locally, because while I was thinking about making a forge and starting - I can hold off until I get a feel for it I'm going to check the GBOP site as well now and you'll see me soon. At the moment I'm trying to have a friend of mine start with me but who knows - a helping hand is much appreciated and I am certain I will take you up on the offer. Now I have to inform the ball and chain.. (We learn to cut metal right? haha) doesn't have a huge problem with a few hours of free time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Wow thanks! I'm really glad that there are places to go locally, because while I was thinking about making a forge and starting - I can hold off until I get a feel for it ... It is very wise to hold off in acquiring equipment until you have tried forges and tools out first. The BGCM blacksmithing school has a selection of hammers, tongs and a nice set of anvils, forges, swage blocks and other tools. If you are interested, it is even possible to arrange for you at some point to try out the museum's historic forge. Trying out tools before making purchases can better fit tools to your needs. A big mistake I made years ago was to purchase an arc-welder prior to taking a course in welding, only to find out that the welder that I purchased was inadequate for my needs. You live in a great location within driving distance of several blacksmithing groups. As well as being a member of the Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland, I am a member of the Pennsylvania guild, and a life-member of the Potomac Guild. There are additional guilds in Virginia, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Now I have to inform the ball and chain.. (We learn to cut metal right? haha) doesn't have a huge problem with a few hours of free time. Domestic Goddess or Goddess (without the domestic bit). They think more highly of that term. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaming of Bending Metal Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Domestic Goddess or Goddess (without the domestic bit). They think more highly of that term. Phil You're absolutely right there. Goddess for sure for this one. haha. Do you have any idea what type of forge you will be using? Coal, charcoal, gas, did I mention coal? Hey Mark - Thanks for the greetings, I did in fact.. I've read that coal is the most preferred fuel and I will most likely be using that as it's available. I have thought that the long term goal would be the self-sufficience of charcoal though. I like the idea of making my own means, so I'm reading on how to make good characoal - who know's if it's legal in my area though... There's so much that's illegal nowadays. It is very wise to hold off in acquiring equipment until you have tried forges and tools out first. The BGCM blacksmithing school has a selection of hammers, tongs and a nice set of anvils, forges, swage blocks and other tools. If you are interested, it is even possible to arrange for you at some point to try out the museum's historic forge. Trying out tools before making purchases can better fit tools to your needs. A big mistake I made years ago was to purchase an arc-welder prior to taking a course in welding, only to find out that the welder that I purchased was inadequate for my needs. You live in a great location within driving distance of several blacksmithing groups. As well as being a member of the Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland, I am a member of the Pennsylvania guild, and a life-member of the Potomac Guild. There are additional guilds in Virginia, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, etc. I'm glad I didn't run off and go nuts just yet, I suppose I'm a bit mellower than a few years ago. As of now, I'm interested in soaking in all the knowledge I can, having the chance to work on the historic forge sounds amazing - althought I don't want to get ahead of myself.. I'm realizing the same thing and I couldn't be happier about it, I'm hoping to drag the family into the fairs and get public get togethers atleast would be fun for my sons. The best part is that they'll learn some history along the way, hell perhaps my eldest will find an interest in metal working. I'm at the point where anything that will keep him unplugged from the media/tv madness is a huge boon. - Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I've read that coal is the most preferred fuel and I will most likely be using that as it's available. I have thought that the long term goal would be the self-sufficience of charcoal though. I realize I'm getting ahead of where you are right now, but I'll throw out a few things to consider on the subject of fuel. I have forged with coal, charcoal, propane and oil. They all have advantages and disadvantages. I currently do almost all my forging with coal, and I like it very much. It makes a very hot, very flexible fire that you can easily tune to your specific purpose. It's cheap if you don't have to pay for shipping by the bag, and building a functional coal forge can be fairly simple. You can buy good smithing coal from BGCM -- I don't know all the details, but a friend who is a member there has done it -- which would be very convenient for you. But coal smoke is acrid, irritating to the eyes and lungs, and genuinely bad for you. So a chimney is a really good idea, and even that may not be good enough if you have neighbors nearby. Propane is clean, simple to handle, and very readily available. It probably won't bother the neighbors. But it costs more than coal (again, perhaps depending on what you pay for shipping), and it requires a more complicated, expensive forge. Some people struggle to reach welding heat with it. (It absolutely can be done, and it's not that hard, but some people have a little trouble with it.) With coal or charcoal in a proper forge for that fuel, and an adequate air supply, achieving welding heat is never really a question. I've made a few hundred pounds of charcoal and can tell you how to do it fairly painlessly with a simple setup -- nothing more than 55 gallon drum with a lid, and a few holes punched in the sides. It's far less complicated than the retorts you'll see around the Internet, although it's probably a less efficient and it does produce some smoke. Whether you can get away with it will depend on your living arrangements. Cut-up pallets (untreated -- I don't use anything that looks oddly colored or otherwise gives me reason to believe it contains nasty chemicals) are a good source of free wood, and they have the advantage of uniform, relatively thin cross-sections. Thinner cross-sections char faster, and disuniform cross-sections create problems. If you let the burn go long enough to completely char the thick pieces, the thin ones tend to burn up. If you stop when the thin ones are charred, the process is incomplete in the thick ones. Uniformity makes for a much better, more efficient end result. Waste oil was an interesting experiment, but ultimately just way too much trouble in my view. The fact that I used a fairly crude, homemade burner probably made matters worse. Oil did unleash godawful amounts of heat, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreaming of Bending Metal Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 Thanks for pointing me in the right direction; it helps a lot as I am limited on what I can use because of my neighbors. While my living arraignments might soon change this will help me figure out what kind of space I'll need in my next place - which is a huge help. You've answered most of my questions about creating charcoal - pallets are a great idea and there are usually tons of these being trashed in my area that I should be able to get my hands on. For my own understanding I'd like to outline the process as I know it… 1. Have a supply of untreated junk wood of relative uniformity. 2. Metal drum with holes spaced from top to bottom to regular air flow 3. Fill drum with wood, start it burning - as it burns down I continually add more wood until the drum has filled with charcoal/ash. I've read somewhere that you need to let the fire burn out, is that true and if so, how to I ensure that the flames go out? The only thing that comes to mind is dosing the barrel with a little water or stifling the fire somehow. I've also read that you should allow the charcoal to become damp and then dry, it wasn't explained on the purpose of this and I'm curious as to why. The questions that come up in my mind is how to differentiate between the ash (I suppose a light/dark gray) and charcoal (Black?) effectively? Also, I’m assuming that the charcoal should be stored in a separate drum that doesn’t have holes and that has a cover. I know that’s a lot and I’m sure I’ll have literally hundreds of other question but the more I read on this site, the more I’m coming to appreciate the literal hundreds of years of accumulative knowledge this forum has become the conduit for.. It’s awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Thanks for pointing me in the right direction; it helps a lot as I am limited on what I can use because of my neighbors. While my living arraignments might soon change this will help me figure out what kind of space I'll need in my next place - which is a huge help. You've answered most of my questions about creating charcoal - pallets are a great idea and there are usually tons of these being trashed in my area that I should be able to get my hands on. For my own understanding I'd like to outline the process as I know it… 1. Have a supply of untreated junk wood of relative uniformity. 2. Metal drum with holes spaced from top to bottom to regular air flow 3. Fill drum with wood, start it burning - as it burns down I continually add more wood until the drum has filled with charcoal/ash. That's not how I do it. I use what amounts to a very simple top lit updraft gasifier. (TLUD. Google it for more. There are a lot of people interested in making charcoal for various reasons these days, and with lots of ideas about how to do it.) Punch four or five ~1" holes around the circumference of your drum, a couple inches from the bottom. Fill it to the top with wood, but leave a little space for heat to circulate freely around and among the pieces. (I cut the pallets across the thin slats, right next to the thicker, internal braces. This gives pieces that fit into the drum fairly compactly.) Cut maybe 25% more and leave it aside. Both hardwoods and softwoods have been used for forging charcoal. They behave a little differently, but both work. With the lid off, light a fire at the top of the drum. As the fire spreads and burns down below the top of the drum, the rising heat and combustion byproducts prevent air from entering the fire from above. All the oxygen has to come from the holes at the bottom. As the fire continues burning downward, the oxygen coming up from the bottom is consumed near the flame front. The fuel above the flame front doesn't get exposed to much oxygen so it doesn't get consumed (much). You'll know you're on the right track when you see a lazy blue flame that starts at just about the top of the drum. It looks like it's almost rolling over the edge. If you have too much air going in the bottom, you'll burn up a lot of your newly made charcoal and you may not see the blue flame. Too little air and the fire will starve. There won't be much heat, and you may not get a blue flame because there won't be much charring going on and the gases won't be preheated enough to burn when they hit air. It will take a little experimentation to tune your process. As the fire starts to settle, I add some fresh wood. Might as well get maximum use out of the heat I'm making. When you judge that the fire is near the bottom of the drum -- the steel around my air holes starts to glow, and the blue flame may start to die down -- seal off the holes in the bottom with sticky mud/clay, then put the lid on. If it has an open bung hole, plug that. (I set a firebrick on top of it.) Be warned that the drum will be producing a lot of radiant heat at his point. The interior will be a mass of glowing orange coals. You might throw in a couple more pieces of wood before you close it up, but don't overdo it. If the drum is reasonably well sealed you'll smother the fire, but it'll remain hot for a long time. It may continue to produce smoke for a while, especially if you added fresh wood at the end. (Some will leak out around the lid and the bung hole.) Let the drum cool to ambient before you open it. Remove your charcoal and store it someplace dry. Water is not its friend. Recycle any pieces that seem incompletely charred and include them in the next go-round. When you've made good charcoal the individual pieces will have structural integrity. They'll look like wood, but matte black. They'll be firm, and they'll break rathern than crumble. When you throw the pieces in a container (or pour them out) they'll make an almost metallic tinkling sound. If your charcoal is very soft, friable and crumbly, covered in ash, and/or doesn't look much like wood anymore (like the remains in the center of a campfire), you overcharred it. Ease up on the air next time, or kill the fire sooner. If a lot of it is still tough and makes a "thunk" sound, you undercharred it. More air next time, or let it burn longer. You can buy lump charcoal in the grilling section at a big box store. Pick up a bag for comparison. The commercial guys usually do a good job. That's what you want most of your end result to look like. You can control air flow to your fire by blocking off some of the ventilation holes with clay/mud during the burn. Of course the way to add air is to make more holes.I've also read that you should allow the charcoal to become damp and then dry, it wasn't explained on the purpose of this and I'm curious as to why. A crude way to make charcoal is to make an open fire, let it burn a while, then douse it with water. It's very inefficient, and the product isn't very good. (Geez, I sound like a character on Breaking Bad.) That's probably what you read about. This way is much better.The questions that come up in my mind is how to differentiate between the ash (I suppose a light/dark gray) and charcoal (Black?) effectively? If you've made good charcoal it'll be matte black with very little white or gray ash on it. If you're seeing a lot of ash on your charcoal, you overcooked it. (Of course there's bound to be some ash at the bottom of the drum. Some of the wood has to burn in order for the process to work.) For further reference, here's a good thread on charcoal making: http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=17918&st=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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