jimbob Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 A few years back my guild(Ocmulgee Blacksmith guild) had a treadle hammer build we built this hammer http://brainfortunes.com/Treadlehammer/Treadlehammer.htm after using for a few years with mixed results I believe this hammer is in need of a couple of modification . at present it has 75 pounds of lead in the head ...problem is the bottom anvil side is just 4" square tube with a 1" plate with a hardy hole in it ...what I am thinking of doing is one adding a four inch spacer, as I believe we welded the 1" plates on top of the tubes (I believe they should have been recessed) this will give more room under the hammer. the next thing is adding weight to the anvil tube I was thing while I have the top cut adding the spacer to remove the 1" plate and drop about 30 inches of 3" square solid down it and pour lead around to make it solid then weld it all back together this should add about 100-125 pounds to the bottom anvil tube...any thoughts on this from you guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 IMHO, using tubes for anvils on treadle hammers is fine if you are only going to do very light work. If you want the ability to move metal more effectively for moderate forging, a heavier solid anvil will be significantly better. Personally, I would probably cut the existing anvil away with a zip disk and replace it with a solid round or square (5 to 6 inches). If you choose to beef the existing anvil up with "inside or outside" the tube support, I suggest the added steel support go from the base all the way to the top plate (no gaps). Use a saddle over your lower die to hold tooling on the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhartironwerks Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 IMHO, using tubes for anvils on treadle hammers is fine if you are only going to do very light work. If you want the ability to move metal more effectively for moderate forging, a heavier solid anvil will be significantly better. Personally, I would probably cut the existing anvil away with a zip disk and replace it with a solid round or square (5 to 6 inches). If you choose to beef the existing anvil up with "inside or outside" the tube support, I suggest the added steel support go from the base all the way to the top plate (no gaps). Use a saddle over your lower die to hold tooling on the bottom. Yep...totally agree with Dave. The anvil is probably the most under rated part of any treadle/power hammer. Bigger is better. JE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backwoods Blacksmith Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I can't say that I disagree with any of the previous comments. But, if you add a solid block of significant size to the top of the anvil shaft it will certainly help. I have a Jere Kirkpatrick style hammer that I built several years ago. The anvil shaft is 4 in sq tubing with 3/8 wall. It is topped with a 1 in plate. I then added a 4 in by 6in spacer to be used with tooling. When not using tooling I use a piece of 50lb RR track and 2 in cutoff end of a 6 lb sledge hammer. These are both welded to 1 in plates. This set up really moves the metal. My tup without the hammer head weighs 65 lbs. I recently reduced the weight from 80lbs due to spring breakage and availability. If I had the chance I would certainly go to a solid anvil shaft of minimum 4in. But since I am in the middle if an air hammer build I don't see that happening. Adding a solid block 25 to 30 lbs to the top of the anvil shaft will really enhance your results. Good luck and happy hammering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 IMHO, using tubes for anvils on treadle hammers is fine if you are only going to do very light work. If you want the ability to move metal more effectively for moderate forging, a heavier solid anvil will be significantly better. Personally, I would probably cut the existing anvil away with a zip disk and replace it with a solid round or square (5 to 6 inches). If you choose to beef the existing anvil up with "inside or outside" the tube support, I suggest the added steel support go from the base all the way to the top plate (no gaps). Use a saddle over your lower die to hold tooling on the bottom. that's kin of what I was planning on except I was going to put a solid piece in the tube as close to the inside diameter and pour lead around it ...the plate that I have on it now has a 1" hardy on in it for tooling so it needs the recess for the shank....why does lead work int the top(hammer end) but not the bottom Anvil end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge9001 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 why does lead work int the top(hammer end) but not the bottom Anvil end? While I am not experienced with anything other than my hand hammer, this explaination makes sense to me... lead added to te hammer or top side adds weight and weight on the hammer end is a good thing, it makes it more efficient. Lead added to the anvil side however will not create a solid anvil. and a tube filled with lead will eventually work loose and then it wlll act more like an cast iron anvil with the steel top plate working loose. energy will be lost as thing bounce around instead of rebounding to the project. Perhaps a way to get a better result would be fill the tube with angle iron, rebar or other long bars of steel, and then fill the remaining gaps with lead just to hold everything in place, before rewelding the plate on the top. MAYBE Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I think your plan would make a better hammer than what you currently have. I also think a solid column of steel from top to bottom, per Dave's advice, would be even better. That's just my gut instinct on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 I think your plan would make a better hammer than what you currently have. I also think a solid column of steel from top to bottom, per Dave's advice, would be even better. That's just my gut instinct on this. the cost is what is keeping me from doing it that way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 the cost is what is keeping me from doing it that way... I know the feeling. There's the right way, the wrong way, and the way I can afford . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Drop a steel ball on a good anvil and it'll bounce back almost to where it started. Now try that with a lead ball. Drop a steel ball on a chunk of lead. Now drop a lead ball on a lead anvil. Boxing either in steel only protects the outside, the physics are the same. You ever use a lead filled hammer? What's known as a "dead-blow" hammer. Put the anvil together with a tube and a solid and some lead? You ever work on an anvil with a loose face weld? Just some things to ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Call up the fork lift service center, and a few other places known for large steel drops or scrap and see if you get lucky. Probably going to need to "practice" some welding to get the shape and size. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted July 6, 2011 Author Share Posted July 6, 2011 Drop a steel ball on a good anvil and it'll bounce back almost to where it started. Now try that with a lead ball. Drop a steel ball on a chunk of lead. Now drop a lead ball on a lead anvil. Boxing either in steel only protects the outside, the physics are the same. You ever use a lead filled hammer? What's known as a "dead-blow" hammer. Put the anvil together with a tube and a solid and some lead? You ever work on an anvil with a loose face weld? Just some things to ponder. you make a good point I hadn't looked at that way ...thanks for the eye opener Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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