Dillon Sculpture Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Maybe someone will talk me out of this idea, but I am considering a electrical linear actuator to control the 500 Bradley. The rest of the package includes a manipulator for my push behind lift, I am trying to eliminate the toll on my body when working big stuff by myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I have been thinking about the same thing only was thinking air, and my forklift. The linear actuator may be a better idea in that the control wire could be smaller and a more positive control. I would love to hear more about this if you go ahead. What I have seen for a remote control for a hammer for working long bars is an extended treadle. It was basically just an L shaped piece of flat bar with a joggle on the top end of the L to fit over the treadle. The end of the leg of the L would sit on the floor, with the upright of the L running paralell to the floor. It is then really easy to set up or take off. I would think you would need to have the bar long enough that you do not have a significant mechanical disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Maybe someone will talk me out of this idea, but I am considering a electrical linear actuator to control the 500 Bradley. The rest of the package includes a manipulator for my push behind lift, I am trying to eliminate the toll on my body when working big stuff by myself. Just don't get any older and the body toll won't get any worse...............I'd like to try building an air hammer that utilized electric controls but my limited electrical knowledge is an impediment .......The old Bradly would look a bit odd with a modern attachment like that.......Like dragging the proud old man kicking and screaming into the 21st century, maybe if you clad the thing in chain mail it would help. The body can only stretch so far, so why not.......mb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Do you just need to be farther from the machine for longer work? I am going to buy/make a remote foot pedal for mine next time I do long pieces. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Makes sense, Plenty of precedent for RC control of larger equipment - cranes, mining equipment, excavating, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 I built a extension for the treadle last time I forged some 3" about 12' long and I still did one end then the other. I have 4" square 7' long (thats almost 400#) to forge out near 12' I may try and hold it but the 3" pate 12" wide and 6' long is going to be a bear nothing fancy but it will be an odd shape when I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Get with it all ready, why haven't you got the parts ordered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 If I had your $$ it wouldn't be a question! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I built a extension for the treadle last time I forged some 3" about 12' long and I still did one end then the other. I have 4" square 7' long (thats almost 400#) to forge out near 12' I may try and hold it but the 3" pate 12" wide and 6' long is going to be a bear nothing fancy but it will be an odd shape when I'm done. What about a clamp/bolt on handle to the billet and a heat shield on the handle or on you so you can be right on the work still and have a foot on the treadle? I am picturing a yoke type clamp like in Lillico plate 31 http://www.scribd.com/doc/33772464/Blacksmith-s-Manual-Illustrated-1930-by-J-W-Lillico Of course the trick is to have the end behind you secured from jumping in some way (a stand bolted to the floor over the bar by a bit to keep the bar end from jarring you up or down too much as you are on the wrong side of a lever working near the center of the long bar so you can reach the treadle)..make sense? Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I think if you are going to the work to build a manipulator you would be better to pick up an electric forklift to mount it to rather than your push behind lift. The push behinds I have seen only go up and down. You want to be able to tip it as well so you are flat on the dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 In my past life, I saw some very nice lifts that used vacuum, as far as I can tell. The vacuum was connected to suction cups to grip the part, and as far as I can recall, the vacuum also provided the lift. We are talking things in the 100 pound range, I believe. Obviously you would not want or need suction cups, but the advantage of this lift over conventional cable or chain lifts was that a little force moved it up and down and back and forth. Very slick, very user friendly. The shop people really used them, which is the test of how good they were. The system below appears to be the same as the one I remember.Vacuum tube lift I hate push around lifts, way too hard to push. Awful things. Get a walkie type forklift with power travel and lift. They can be fairly compact. You can get both forks and a lifting hook, easy to change out as needed. But these vacuum lifts are the only things that I have seen that deal with varying weights yet allow you to position the load easily. An alternative to electronics would be a mechanical cable system, connecting the remote foot pedal to the main hammer treadle. I would bet that would be cheaper and probably simpler to implement. The advantage of linear electronic control would be you could probably have a relatively short travel for the foot pedal. You should think about a quick disconnect system for whatever you do, so you can restore the hammer to basic treadle operation. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I would be more inclined to use pneumatic controls rather than vacuum control. In the HVAC industry there used to be an awful lot of pneumatic controls to open and close dampers, valves and the such. If you look at what Ron Kenyon has done with pneumatic controls and Mr. Coleman had done to revise the controls to the Kenyon Hammer. You should be able to make a pneumatic actuator for the Bradley hammer and also make or adapt a mobile stand to hold you steel while it is being drawn out to save wear and tear on the old body. Perhaps as suggested a fork lift with a barrel turning attachment on it would serve for that part of the task or may be just the barrel turning attachment converted from hydraulic to pneumatic and then manually move it back and forth. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 If I had your $$ it wouldn't be a question! Michael, Is there no-one to draw from in the area to assist? I understand the desired to do it alone, but maybe a good assistant for a weekend to help with the grunt work forging would be better? Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Thanks, them some good ideas, cable operation like a throttle would be awesome if I can figure the mechanical advantage it should work. I hadn't thought about the tilt on the lift but if I use it in tandem with a jib I can make a u joint type setup. I am considering using a post vise for the manipulator, it would have decent clamping force and I could change it to suit my needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Michael, Is there no-one to draw from in the area to assist? I understand the desired to do it alone, but maybe a good assistant for a weekend to help with the grunt work forging would be better? Ric Its not that I don't have help or want help, but its hard to deligate when you make this stuff up as go! A bit of brainstorming has help tremendously though. Thanks all, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 There's an easy solution to this problem, your good friend Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fosterob Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Michael, Here is who I have talked to a few yrs ago about remote pedals. It sounded like a standard control cable connecting the hammer to the pedal. I think they were about five bills. This is an ad from abana mag 2007 Services Remote foot pedals, self-locking wedges, quick-change die con- versions and more. Lander Tool and Die is your source for improved power hammer productivity and efficiency. Hammer- specific and custom applications. 209/296-6471. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Thanks, them some good ideas, cable operation like a throttle would be awesome if I can figure the mechanical advantage it should work. I hadn't thought about the tilt on the lift but if I use it in tandem with a jib I can make a u joint type setup. I am considering using a post vise for the manipulator, it would have decent clamping force and I could change it to suit my needs. Is there a marine bone yard in the area? They probably have a large part of your kit already fabricated and cables to 20 ft. or longer. Teleflex makes nice stuff for boats, but if your throw is short enough (a few inches) then why reinvent the wheel? Might need to protect the plastic bits from heat though. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Look for push-pull cables, the links below may help. Some of the cables have 6 inch travel, might suit your needs.push pull cables These guys have cable with a galvanized steel sheath, better than plastic in a blacksmithing situation. More cables You could make a remote pedal/treadle, and hook it up with the cable to your main treadle. Note that although some of these cables can both push and pull, they are naturally stronger when used to pull, so better to design the cable as pulling when you push on the pedal. I doubt if you need a custom cable, look for a stock cable. On the other hand, some of these companies may have a small minimum charge for a custom cable, just pick a standard style and tell them how many feet you want. On my sheet medal power hammer, I use a bicycle brake or shift cable and a home made pedal and linkage, works fine, operates a trigger valve, I have a spring return on the trigger valve. How much cable you need depends on how much force you need to operate the main treadle. I can position the pedal where it is most convenient. In this case, it is my only pedal. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Out of curiosity I just looked up linear actuators and came up with these guys Actuators I was surprised how cheap they are. But looking at them I did have a concern, that is making me think an air cylinder might be safer. If your power supply cuts out or controller wire is damaged there is nothing to stop the hammer. With a cylinder set up as a single acting cylinder and the treadle spring and a possible helper spring as the return any damage to your control will cause an instant release of the treadle. I would think I would want the treadle operating as a "dead man" switch so if you let go the treadle goes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ive seen a couple of decent sized (4000lb) 'self contained' open die hammers work very nicely with linear actuators shunting the handlever. A reasonable fail safe would just be an emergency stop to cut the motor (if the hammer controls jammed in full work position it might give half a dozen blows of reducing energy as the compressor side winds down) as you would be remote from the hammer this might not be particularly dangerous. Manipulators made from fork trucks tend to get knocked to bits in fairly short order unless the whole work holding portion is isolated, might be worth considering a truck with 'side shift' you could then use the extra hydraulic outputs for work clamp or jaw rotate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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