Question on helve hammer build

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

I would like to build a little helve hammer similar to the one Grant built, video is under post A"New" wood helve hammer. He uses a straight six engine block. Now before anyone says "why don't you ask Grant" I did and he never replied back. On the arm would that be a solid arm or tubing, his looks to be made out of aluminum. Where can some one get a pulley the size he used? What size motor would be good to use? Every thing else I can figure out myself but I never done a build like this.

[arftist]

Are you planning to use an engine block also?

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

Yes, Plan on building it like the one in the video. Sorry for not being clear on that, wrong wording.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

I was intending to tell you to ask in the forum. Unless there is a reason to keep it private, I'd prefer to put things out where everyone can share. Besides, I get 50-75 real (non-spam) emails every day.

The engine block does not add as much weight as we had hoped. Stripped down, you'd be amazed how light they are. It does give a base to work off of plus a nice crank drive. The beam I used was an oak 4 X 4 from a large pallet. The pulley was just something we found in the junk pile. You might consider a tire hammer drive, that's what I would use today.

[Francis Trez Cole]

Grants design is great and he was very helpful to me I started one have the base built had to stop because I got a champion power hammer.

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

Grant,

I didn't mean anything bad about you not answering my e-mail. After thinking about it I decided to post that way I would get different ideas. Grant since you built the hammer I just thought you would know the pro's and con's of the hammer. I always value the help and expertise on IFI.

[ThomasPowers]

All the junkyard hammers I know of that use an engine block have had the same caveat---using a solid chunk of metal would have been better! A chunk of scrap steel the same weight as an engine block is really fairly small if you can up the weight so much the better!

The idea of a self built junkyard hammer is to use what you have to hand cheaply and locally and to not get fixed on what someone else had in their scrap pile...

[arftist]

Try to get in touch with Jerry Allen at Wizards Forge. He sells a set of plans for a spring helve, which is a pretty easy build and a good hammer. They can be used with a tire clutch.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

While the engine block does not add much weight, it does create a frame and drive. Gives a nice flat surface to reference from and lots of bolt holes. I'd like to do another one using a 4 cylinder block and bolt a tall anvil to the front.

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

I don't have to much extra on hand do to limit space and living in town. We do have a couple scrap yard I can buy the thing I need pretty cheap. Do to space and cash thats why I was thinking of going this route, 1" - 1 1/2" is about the biggest I'll be forging. I also wanted to talk to a friend of mine to see if this is the best route to go.

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

Grant when you talk about weight is that for better forging or just so the hammer doesn't walk around?

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Both, but mainly for forging effectiveness. Bare minimum would be five times the weight of the ram. Ten times is pretty good, fifteen times is wonderful and twenty gets about the last squeak out of the pig.

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

Would a washing machine motor be large enough for this type of hammer?

[arftist]

Would a washing machine motor be large enough for this type of hammer?

Washing machine motor, usualy 1/2 hp IIRC. http://www.littlegianthammer.com/pdf_files/Useful%20Information.pdf

This chart is from the Little Giant website. My homebuilt hammer has 2 hp, ram or tup weighs 75 pounds. Seems to be enough power.

I don't think a washing machine motor would run much more than a 15 pound tup. I could be wrong, though, often am.

What type of work are you planning for this hammer?

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

I plan on making some tongs, working on some 1'-1 1/2' stock, any thing that a small hammer like this will handle. If I find out its not what I want I'll sell it to someone else or give it away.

[monstermetal]

A 20lb power hammer with very aggressive fullering dies will move a lot of material... so keep that in mind... If you put 4" wide flat dies on it your not going to get much work done..

[doc]

Check out this link for home built PH's. http://www.appaltree.net/rusty/index.htm

Doc

[Stormcrow]

Grant, after guiding the building of my own modified Appalachian and seeing the DePew design, looking back on this, it strikes me that using the piston of the motor seems to add a lot of complexity without too much benefit. What would you think of using the shortened crankshaft and eliminating the block? Maybe orienting it 90 degrees to the direction you had it so you don't have to deal with sideways forces on the linkage from the crank up to the helve?

Bad Creek - I really like the homebrewed DePew-style helve hammer posted by coolhand on the second page of this thread: This is about one step up in complexity from the simplest power hammer design I can think of, with the Appalachian "Rusty" hammer being one step higher than that.

Hope this helps.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

What ever turns your crank! Eliminate the block but use the crank? Then what do you do for bearings? The engine gave a crank, bearings, an up-and-down motion and a flat and square "build platform". Hey, It's all about having fun and brainstorming.

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

Guys, Thanks for all your information I got you throwing ideas out and I get to sit back and enjoy. I hope this post helps someone else out as well.

[arftist]

Guys, Thanks for all your information I got you throwing ideas out and I get to sit back and enjoy. I hope this post helps someone else out as well.

I would seriously consider a depew style if I was doing a hammer build. I know Jr. is still around, but he doesn't come here very often anymore. Maybe if you pm him he could help with some plans or critical dimensions.

[Stormcrow]

Grant, whenever anyone mentions brainstorming, I get a mental image of brains falling from clouds to splat on the ground.

You're right, I'm taking away much of the advantage of using a block in the first place. It just seems to me like the most complex part of the OJH design is the piston portion of the linkage. Especially if one doesn't know about welding aluminum. A man sees projects through the lens of his own limitations, much of the time.

You're not running the engine with an oil pan on it; what about turning it upside down so the linkage isn't trying to clear the walls of the cylinder? No need to make any kind of wobble joint in your linkage then, right? Not as good of a surface to put your anvil on, but you've already said it wasn't enough mass anyways.

Is using the crank to provide eccentricity the easiest way in this case? The eccentric setup we did on my hammer was pretty simple, although we did have to use a couple of bearings and pillow blocks for it. Pretty much the same as the one in the DePew thread, but with a tire clutch.

Personally, I think the OJH was pretty darn cool and wish I had had enough mechanical understanding to build something along those lines when I started out.

[arftist]

Grant, whenever anyone mentions brainstorming, I get a mental image of brains falling from clouds to splat on the ground.

You're right, I'm taking away much of the advantage of using a block in the first place. It just seems to me like the most complex part of the OJH design is the piston portion of the linkage. Especially if one doesn't know about welding aluminum. A man sees projects through the lens of his own limitations, much of the time.

You're not running the engine with an oil pan on it; what about turning it upside down so the linkage isn't trying to clear the walls of the cylinder? No need to make any kind of wobble joint in your linkage then, right? Not as good of a surface to put your anvil on, but you've already said it wasn't enough mass anyways.

Is using the crank to provide eccentricity the easiest way in this case? The eccentric setup we did on my hammer was pretty simple, although we did have to use a couple of bearings and pillow blocks for it. Pretty much the same as the one in the DePew thread, but with a tire clutc
Personally, I think the OJH was pretty darn cool and wish I had had enough mechanical understanding to build something along those lines when I started out.

If you turn it over, turn it sideways too. Then the crank will face the right way.