Mounting your motor

[thecelticforge]

I have a 75 lb Fairbanks in my shop that getting cleaned up, new dies made, and soon to get a new motor. I want to know where should I mount the motor. The pulley for it won't allow for it to be mounted behind or underneath. I am thinking that I should mount it overhead. Any advice on die making would be a boon too.

[Francis Trez Cole]

I am in the process of restoring an old champion power hammer I am getting ready to make a stand to hold the motor above the hammer out of tube. it will attach to the bolts on the hammer so if i have to move it the stand will be done and attached to the hammer. As far as your dies I just refaced mine with hardfacing rod. you can always make an other set but that is not the direction i decided to go.

[Dave Hammer]

First of all.... That is a sweet hammer.

Second, I would not recommend attaching the motor bracing (or platform) to the hammer at all.

What is the ceiling situation above the motor? I would recommend making a hanger from the ceiling with a platform for the motor.

Another option is to move the drive pulley to behind the hammer. This is not easy, and would require replacement of the shaft on top. It would allow you to use a floor mounted platform behind the hammer. I had a 100# Fairbanks that was set up that way. I replaced the 100# with a 150#, with the pulley setup similar to yours and hung that old timey motor in a frame from the rafters above.

[ThomasPowers]

I have a champion with the original low motor mount---cast iron bolted to the base of the frame.

I'd worry about the motor/hammer pumping my sheetmetal roof and annoying the neighbors---I've noticed that the postvise bolted to one of the uprights---a stout utility pole buried 5' in the ground and 10 ' above the ground---can make an appreciable amount of noise.

[thecelticforge]

First of all.... That is a sweet hammer.



What is the ceiling situation above the motor? I would recommend making a hanger from the ceiling with a platform for the motor.

Ceiling mount it is then. It will be a bit safer and give me more floor space. Leather belt or synthetic?

[clinton]

I put mine on a seprate post and built a platform using 3 layers of 1 1/8 plywood, but it also required a jack shaft
For belts check out hit and miss http://www.hitnmiss.com/index.html

[fciron]

Second, I would not recommend attaching the motor bracing (or platform) to the hammer at all.

Would you mind explaining this recommendation?

Not criticizing, just curious.

[Dave Hammer]

I know lots of hammers have the motors mounted on the frame, but I prefer not to. I have to believe, unless the hammer is extremely heavy (less frame vibration), the shock from forging isn't good for the motor. I also don't care for long belts (when the motor is at or near floor level) for safety reasons.

Mostly, though, the Fairbanks is a great and handsome hammer and I would never bolt a frame to it for a motor. It's a thing of beauty. I wouldn't attach a wart to it.... but that's just me.

I just like the looks of a power hammer that is sitting out by itself, without stuff attached to it.

Either type of belt (synthetic or leather) is OK. Leather would probably cost a lot more. You should not have to use belt dressing in either case.

[E.F. Thumann]

Those pics are of my Fairbanks D that I'm at the tail-end of restoring (posted the full account of that on one of the other Fairbanks threads, its long be careful ). The frame is approx 28"x40" cross section, all 2" square, .120" wall mild steel. Don't pay attention to the motor pulley setup, that was just to test the hammer to see if everything was in working order, I'm going to reverse it 180 and run a jackshaft back with a larger front pulley (so it clutches correctly). I put in the curved tong rack (god bless Ercolina), and also the lower tong rack to organize stuff. Its very, very solid (I like to triangulate stuff that tall/narrow). Oh, the protection cage is 1" .120 wall tube (thanks to ercolina #2 ), with 1/2" round bar tigged for the verticals, very heavy, but I figure safer is better. The strange loops up top on the cage are so that the pitman cant come around and crush my skull if the collar slips off (happened once in the history of the hammer b/f I owned it). I'm 6'4" in my work boots for size reference. K, I will zip my lips.

Oh, ps, there are two small arms/tabs that come off the center of the curved tong rack, that sit on either side of the hammer. They have 5/8 nuts welded to them, and I threaded bolts through to "cinch" the hammer to the frame (1/4" thick leather between bolts and hammer). I'm very very averse to drilling into the hammer, after it has remained untouched from butchery for 100 years.

[Dave Hammer]

Much simplier to just hang the motor.

[thecelticforge]

Thanks for the photos! Now, I just need some dies. I really want some free hand dies and a set like you have on your hammer.

[thecelticforge]

Belts, where do we get belts? Leather or synthetic? I do know a guy in CA that does leather belts.

[Dave Hammer]

I have always used synthetic belts (or belting material) that I have bought used or at auctions (I have a lacing machine). Tractor Supply Co sells synthetic belting. I don't know if their belting would work in a slipping environment (I have had problems trying to use belts meant for conveyers). I would suggest you talk to a technical service desk at McMaster Carr or MSC to get a recommendation if you go with synthetic.

If the belting you find is too wide, just cut it lengthways with a linoleum knife.

[E.F. Thumann]

Much simplier to just hang the motor.

I agree completely dave...........unless your shop happens to look like mine when you turn your eyes upwards;) I think I just found a reason NOT to have a big shop, lol. P.s. I've been messing around with a 3/32" leather belt that is "alligator" clipped together (the kind you beat on with a hammer, and slide a pin through), and the leather is stretching to no end. How thick are the belts you run on your hammers Dave?

[Dave Hammer]

The belting I use currently is about 1/8th of an inch thick. One belt is six inches wide, the other is four inches wide. Some of the synthetics I have tried have streched also.

In some ways, I wish I had a shop with high ceilings. It would facilitate me having a jib crane, or a rail for a trolley lift. It would also make some of these tools a LOT easier to work on.

I would still want a clean looking hammer and would (most likely) endeavor to move the drive pulley to the rear of the hammer so I could use a (mid-height) floor stand.... Actually, for a high-ceiling building, a single tall metal post with a platform welded on top for the motor wouldn't be that obtrusive.

Just my preferences.

[Mainely,Bob]

Just a caution for those who have wood framed shops and 2X ceiling joists.
You may want to spend some time connecting the joists in the area you are going to hang the motor together with some reinforcing lumber shaped like an L(think wall corner) and to mount the motor on heavy plywood that sandwiches the joists rather than just screwing the ply to the bottom of the joist or drilling the joist for thru bolts.Screws can pull out,thru bolts will not.
Once you hang that motor in the overhead you will quickly realize that any vibration will be transferred into the entire roof and there is a chance that your steel roof will now act like a giant snare drum/amplifier.Something to keep in mind if you and the neighbor are already not on good terms because of your activities.

[peacock]

I use belting made for hale balers. Can get it about anywhere here. It comes in several widths. The place I get mine has it in 500 ft. rolls and will cut and lace to your specs. Very little strech. I prefer to lace mine myself with laether lacing. I had a close call with metal hook laceing also the leather lace is much quieter. As far as belt stretch, most of my problems were caused by trying to use a very small drive pulley so we don't have to use a jack shaft. when you try to use a small pulley you must put alot of tension on the belt to get the grip you need. That excessive tension stretches the belt. If we will use a drive pulley about the same size as the driven pulley there is equal amounts of belt contact on the pulleys the result being much less tension required. A big plus is less pressure is needed on the treadle, less wind up time to get the hammer up to speed, and more consistent control. When these drives were designed they were all lineshafts, if you look at old pictures of these you will see belts coming down from the shafts with the belts parallel.

So I set up my 125 bradley with a jackshaft with a small pulley on the motor to a large pulley on the jackshaft to get the speed correct. The flat belt pulley on the other end is 18 inch (sane as the driven pulley on the hammer) With this setup it is a completly different hammer. I no longer have to wait thru 5 or 6
light blows before I can get a full power blow. I can also get very predictable light taps anytime I want them. It may cost a little more but really worth it to me.

[E.F. Thumann]

I use belting made for hale balers. Can get it about anywhere here. It comes in several widths. The place I get mine has it in 500 ft. rolls and will cut and lace to your specs. Very little strech. I prefer to lace mine myself with laether lacing. I had a close call with metal hook laceing also the leather lace is much quieter. As far as belt stretch, most of my problems were caused by trying to use a very small drive pulley so we don't have to use a jack shaft. when you try to use a small pulley you must put alot of tension on the belt to get the grip you need. That excessive tension stretches the belt. If we will use a drive pulley about the same size as the driven pulley there is equal amounts of belt contact on the pulleys the result being much less tension required. A big plus is less pressure is needed on the treadle, less wind up time to get the hammer up to speed, and more consistent control. When these drives were designed they were all lineshafts, if you look at old pictures of these you will see belts coming down from the shafts with the belts parallel.

So I set up my 125 bradley with a jackshaft with a small pulley on the motor to a large pulley on the jackshaft to get the speed correct. The flat belt pulley on the other end is 18 inch (sane as the driven pulley on the hammer) With this setup it is a completly different hammer. I no longer have to wait thru 5 or 6
light blows before I can get a full power blow. I can also get very predictable light taps anytime I want them. It may cost a little more but really worth it to me.

Thanks Peacock. I'm planning on matching my drive pulley (15.5") with one having the same diameter on a jackshaft. Did you custom make your 18" flat belt pulley? I've been debating turning off the ridges on an old agricultural v-belt pulley on my lathe to make it run a belt........or machining a new one from scratch (PITA). What's the company name that you get your belts from?

[harrismetalsmith]

I posted pics of my setup on the Champion hammer thread. Its nice if you can to cast a heavy duty I beam or thick wallled square tube, right down into the concrete hammer base. Then you can weld any brackets for an overhead, line shaft type mount. I go 3 feet down with the concrete base, and before pouring the concrete, weld all kinds of rebar, or reinforcing scrap steel together, and weld it to the upright beam coming out of the base. Using sdomething very heavy duty and stout, but slender takes up less floor space. This also eliminates any attachment to the roof structure. I had a friend who hooked his to the roof, and got some flex out of it.

[SGropp]

Ditto on not mounting the motor to the building or roof framing because of vibration and noise transfer. Even though it is slight that constant rattle is really, really irritating after a while.

I have the motors on my 3 hammers mounted up high on a post or frame fabbed up out of heavy stock [ tube or heavy plate.] The motor mount is bolted to the frame of the hammer, using existing tapped holes in the frame. This makes for a compact and tidy installation, everything is safely out of the way ,but accessible .
Most flat belt applications need a certain minimum distance between pulley to run right.

[Chalky]

Here are a few pics of my friends motor mounting - it works well but needs a guard!!!

[clinton]

Belts, where do we get belts? Leather or synthetic? I do know a guy in CA that does leather belts.

This is a good source for belts they will lace it for you you just tell them what size you need it is a rubber canvas material available in 3 or 4 ply at $5.50 lineal / ft it is much cheaper than leather belt
http://www.hitnmiss.com/index.html
http://www.leatherdrivebelts.com/index.html these are .66 / sq inch or $31.68 lineal ft for a 4 inch belt (according to my precise calculations)

[Mainely,Bob]

Here are a few pics of my friends motor mounting - it works well but needs a guard!!!

You may want to hand your friend a copy of Jake`s "Word to the wise" thread while you`re talking to him about guards.
Many folks have the idea that they personally are very careful about where all parts of their anatomy are at all times and that means guards are not needed(at times I am included here but I`m trying to be better about it).What we fail to recognize is that a belt,blade or other reciprocating or spinning part will pick up and throw out(usually with great force)anything that is dropped or that breaks off and comes in contact with it.It usually throws whatever it is with destructive results,sometimes with catastrophic results.
It`s a whole lot easier to minimize or eliminate the "line of fire" with a guard than it is to constantly be aware of and keep everything that can be damaged or do damage (such as high pressure or quench tanks,etc)out of it.Especially in a small or crowded shop.