Ceramic Wool Safety

[Toreus]

I recently overheated my propane forge and melted the wires I was using to hold in the ceramic wool, along with the piece I was working on. With nothing to hold it, the insulation drooped and now the flame is in places it shouldn't be.

Is it safe to simply wire the insulation back in place? Will having it fired above its rating make it more dangerous?

The <MSDS> for the insulation I used.

I didn't know about this when I first installed it. The guys who sold it didn't use any protection, so I figured I'd be safe enough with a dust mask and wetting down the insulation. If I *can* do anything with the insulation, I'm buying myself a p100 half-face mask asap.

Thanks,
Toreus

PS: I posted something similar but more long-winded in the Gas Forges forum a few days ago, no response yet. Hope I'm not committing a faux-pas by putting this here.

[Steve Shimanek]

Don't know what your forge looks like, but wiring the refractory in place seems like a doomed proposition unless you coat it with some other type of refractory. I have had some decent results from putting Mizzou over glass wool. Definitely don't breathe the fibers and coating them with something will be better for your health. The stuff you have may still be usable if it isn't melted in appearance. Hard to say much without pictures...good luck.

[Toreus]

I made "buttons" out of firebrick, inserted the wires and coated the entire thing in high-temp cement to prevent them from oxidizing away. They worked great until the temperature got hot enough to melt them even inside the insulation. I'll have to be careful not to get the temperature that high again in that forge.

Pics are in http://www.iforgeiro...uctive-surgery/ (Can't figure out how to link them, and I'm not at the computer with the images )

It doesn't look melted, so I'm guessing that means it'll still insulate okay?

I'll be getting that mask tomorrow! :)

[pkrankow]

Wear a mask and rubber gloves, long cuff disposable if you can get them. Fired ceramic wool is way more itchy than fiberglass. Unfired seemed almost not itchy at all to me. I tore apart a larger forge I made that had been fired to reclaim the insulation for my smaller forge.

I have an end made of kaowool on the back that helps press the arched ceiling up. My forge is tiny though, only 4 1/2 inches wide and about as tall.

Phil

[Toreus]

Update: Got the mask, used disposable gloves, did the repairs and slapped some high-temp cement on everything. Forge works like a charm! LINK!

Thanks!

[pkrankow]

Nice looking. About the simplest blown burner I've ever seen!

Phil

[maddog]

IMO the hazards of ceramic wool are somewhat over rated. Any kind of dust is not good for your lungs and in situations where there is chronic exposure to high concentrations of almost any airborne particulate, there is a health risk. For someone already working in a dusty and perhaps sooty blacksmith shop, the increased health risk from kaowool is probably negligible. In the only study which I know of, they induced cancer in rats by exposing them to very high concentrations of ceramic fibers cut short so that they would be likely to snag in the alveoli of the rat's lungs. AFAIK unlike asbestos which caused an epidemic of cancers, there is no evidence of increased morbidity among workers in the plants that manufacture this product. It gets shipped in ordinairy cardboard boxes without any special warnings or restrictions.

I am not saying don't be careful or to skip over reasonable precautions. But it's not cyanide and there are other far more serious risks to worry about, like driving to the supermarket.

[Frosty]

I don't have a link but there is at least one soluable refractory fiber.

I forget what it's called (ni-chrome maybe?) but there are special high temp wire products to secure refractory blankets and reinforce hard refractories. I'd call a ceramic's shop and ask.

A dust mask is a good idea but unless you have lung problems you're probably okay. Heck, even asbestos wasn't very harmful unless you had a job working with it say making brake pads, full time brake mechanic, old school boiler man, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am NOT suggesting you shouldn't take reasonable precautions, just don't panic, most things aren't as dangerous as the "sky is falling" crowd want you to think. Seriously, the "Sky is FALLING" folk would have you believe 2nd hand smoke is more likely to kill you than being a smoker.

Frosty the Lucky.

[maddog]

Yes nichrome wire. Take apart an electric heating coil.

[MattBower]

I agree that the dangers of ceramic wool may be overstated; on the other hand, I'm pretty sure they're not completely imaginary. (The warning lable for Kaowool makes it sound pretty scary, although I realize those things often aren't completely rooted in reality.) As far as I'm concerned a respirator probably isn't a bad idea when you're working with ceramic wool (or with dry, unfired clays, if you do that sort of thing), although the very minimal exposure most of us might get by, say, building a propane forge almost certainly isn't worth worrying about. I'd be more concerned about tiny little airborne particles coming out of my forge every time I fire it up. The simple solution to that is to cover the wool with some kind of rigidizer or castable refractory -- even a very thin layer -- to protect it from mechanical damage, and to lock in most of the fine particles.

By the way, the "bio-soluble" wool, which is supposed to be safer, is called Superwool. At least that's the one I'm familiar with.

[dimenickel]

i second that... just coat it with a slurry of 36 cement... ..and you can use a rigidizer, aswell... ( some sort of colloidal silica)
dangers are abit overhyped... just like zinc


G

[maddog]

Yes a dust mask or respirator is an easy precaution to take so why not do it. But one should also change ones clothes, at least the shirt, after working with kaowool. It makes little sense to wear a mask and then walk around inhaling the stuff that landed on your chest.