Fullering Guide

[Wesley Chambers]

Was thinking of forging a scribe fuller today, Thats the only name I know them by:
The short side does the creasing and the long glides the side of your workpiece.


But I didn't like the idea of needed a new tool for each new depth I wanted for different stock. I decided to build an adjustable depth guide and these are the plans. If a tool like this is already made I haven't seen one. Thoughts?

[Wesley Chambers]

The guide could be modified to clamp onto wooden handles as well as steel welded like some I use.

[MattBower]

Brent Finnigan over at Fogg's makes these, and sells them, too:

http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/BrentFinnigan/Custom%20tooling%20I%20build/?action=view&current=groover10-1.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/user/BrentRF#p/u/35/DLaXnk5131o

Here's a simple version Tai Goo made:

http://primitivepoint.blogspot.com/2008/12/tais-fuller-tool.html

Oh, and here's one by Colonel Hrisoulas:

[Mainely,Bob]

If I was going to make one I would put the tool and the guide on the same line so they could not easily get out of parallel and would pivot around a consistent radius.

I would also make guides in a shoe and a single and double pin configuration.Having the pins lets you follow both an inside and outside curved surface more easily.

[K. Bryan Morgan]

Mat, it seems to me that those are scrapers basicly. Arn't they removing stock? Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Wesly, I like the idea of your tool. I've seen similar ones on the Florida Blacksmiths site, the FABA, also on ebay for sale. The ones on ebay were tinners tools if I remember right. But are the same basic idea. If you made the guide not so tall it would look just like them.

Wouldn't a hammered fuller be stronger than a stock removal fuller? Just like a punched hole is stronger than a drilled one?

[Timothy Miller]

When needing to fuller a line like that I usually first draw the line I want with a silver pencil. I then use a hardened narrow fuller to mark it cold. I heat the object up forging temp and put the line in to the desired depth by hand. No need for gauges or depth stops. Some times it is better to build up the hand skills instead of making up a new tool only to find the old method was only to find out the old way was just as effective as the new way. And now you have a new tool that is less flexible than thew old tried and true tool. But if you were doing 100's of pieces this might be the right approach as it will save some time on layout.

[Timothy Miller]

When needing to fuller a line like that I usually first draw the line I want with a silver pencil. I then use a hardened narrow fuller to mark it cold. I heat the object up forging temp and put the line in to the desired depth by hand. No need for gauges or depth stops. Some times it is better to build up the hand skills instead of making up a new tool only to find the old way was just as effective as the new way. And now you have a new tool that is less flexible than the old tried and true tool. But if you were doing 100's of pieces this might be the right approach as it will save some time on layout.

[MattBower]

Mat, it seems to me that those are scrapers basicly. Arn't they removing stock? Not that there is anything wrong with that.... Wouldn't a hammered fuller be stronger than a stock removal fuller? Just like a punched hole is stronger than a drilled one?

You're absolutely right. They are scrapers. It wasn't until just now that I understood why Wesley's "scraper" was so funny looking, and the whole thing so overbuilt.

I don't want to hijack Wes's thread, but I'll add that I don't think a forged fuller would be stronger than one made by stock removal. I'm also not aware that a punched hole is stronger than a drilled one, assuming they're both surrounded by the same amount of material at the end.

Wes, I assume you're only trying to fuller one side of the steel with this?

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Wouldn't a hammered fuller be stronger than a stock removal fuller? Just like a punched hole is stronger than a drilled one?

It is?

[Wesley Chambers]

Brent Finnigan over at Fogg's makes these, and sells them, too:

http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h151/BrentFinnigan/Custom%20tooling%20I%20build/?action=view&current=groover10-1.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/user/BrentRF#p/u/35/DLaXnk5131o

Here's a simple version Tai Goo made:

http://primitivepoint.blogspot.com/2008/12/tais-fuller-tool.html

Oh, and here's one by Colonel Hrisoulas:

Think you missed the idea of my tool, the point was to not have to mark it with a scribe but to hook it right on the fuller, skip marking step entirely.


Bob- Im a bit lost more detail?

Southshoresmith- when I fuller horseshoes I just use my calipers or an open faced wrench of the size I need, no need for a silver pencil just scraping lightly on the black heat leaves a line that is easily followed


My goal for this type of tool was to have something I can quickly set to a depth, say .25" from the edge of say a 1.5" bar that is 4' long, I dont want to scribe 4' of metal, just heat as much of it as I can grab my fuller with gauge and run a nice straight even line parallel with the edge, make a quarter turn and repeat and in no time at all I have all four sides creased. Sure I could eyeball or mark all 4 side of the stock each time I want to move to the next face but it seems this can save me a ton of time.

[Wesley Chambers]

Maybe my terms here have confused some, by depth I meant how coarse or fine into the piece Im going not how far down into it Im driving the fuller

[bigfootnampa]

With a little practice you can use your fingers as edge guides for marking things like that. They are generally handy, very flexible/adaptable, can be used with all sorts of markers (awls, pencils, felt markers, etc). With a little squeeze at times they can guide to very subtle tapers (perhaps to maintain proper proportions as a blade tapers, for example). I have usually found that eye and hand are more sensitive for such things than measuring devices... especially on curved and tapered work.

[Wesley Chambers]

With a little practice you can use your fingers as edge guides for marking things like that. They are generally handy, very flexible/adaptable, can be used with all sorts of markers (awls, pencils, felt markers, etc). With a little squeeze at times they can guide to very subtle tapers (perhaps to maintain proper proportions as a blade tapers, for example). I have usually found that eye and hand are more sensitive for such things than measuring devices... especially on curved and tapered work.

I use this method quite often with woodworking, and tapers are great but what I was after was parallel lines

[MattBower]

Think you missed the idea of my tool, the point was to not have to mark it with a scribe but to hook it right on the fuller, skip marking step entirely.

I think you're right! Sorry.

[Timothy Miller]

why not just drill a hole threw a standard creaser say 3/8" and slide a round bar bent at 90 deg threw it use a set screw to hold it. This would make a very simple gauge no milling of welding required.

[Wesley Chambers]

I couldnt find any pics of the twist so I ran out to the backyard and forged one, I always heard it called a ribbon twist, whats everyone else calling this type of fullered twist?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lS5NBs-ioU

This took almost 20 min to do( getting the forge heated too )
mark, pre-crease, creasing heat, stop
repeat on each side.
I thought that I could skip this pattern with the attachment and just get a good yellow heat and run with it~ I duno just a thought if I ever have the scrap 1/2 and 1/4 inch Ill tack one together see how it goes

[Wesley Chambers]

why not just drill a hole threw a standard creaser say 3/8" and slide a round bar bent at 90 deg threw it use a set screw to hold it. This would make a very simple gauge no milling of welding required.

I like this idea a lot, Ill be the first to admit I'll over engineer a project if given half a chance, maybe use all thread to make the adjustment easier, I like to have the wide plate to reference the parallel, if the whole face of the plate is in contact with the piece Im good, if its just a round rod my hand could waver left or right out of alignment

[Timothy Miller]

I like this idea a lot, Ill be the first to admit I'll over engineer a project if given half a chance, maybe use all thread to make the adjustment easier, I like to have the wide plate to reference the parallel, if the whole face of the plate is in contact with the piece Im good, if its just a round rod my hand could waver left or right out of alignment

All thread tends to get bunged up and then you cant get the stop nuts to turn.

[Wesley Chambers]

yea could just use a crown bolt and nuts, rub a lil wax on the threads maybe
simplified design:

[John B]

I have one I made some years ago that I thought I would use for lining out grooves parallel to edges,

Basically a sharpish fuller/chisel on the end with a square shanked handle, and a fence with a square hole in, fitted to the handle with a locking bolt to secure it for the distance required..

It lies in the bottom of one of my tool boxes, basically because I found it more of a bother to use than other means.

Firstly it is quite cumbersome in use, and the bolt tends to loosen.

Secondly if you want to go to anything other than lightly lining in from the edge, you get a pulling in effect as the tool bites in on an angle, reducing the distance to the fence causing some deformation on either edge or groove.

I find an easy way to line out these edges is to do them by eye, using a fuller/chisel that has a handle cranked to one side so you can look along the blade as you position it in relation to the edge, if you curve the blade edge appreciably you can form curves also easily.
This cranking of and using a handle keeps your wrist away from the heated workpiece.

I will try to find them and post pics

[Wesley Chambers]

I find an easy way to line out these edges is to do them by eye, using a fuller/chisel that has a handle cranked to one side so you can look along the blade as you position it in relation to the edge, if you curve the blade edge appreciably you can form curves also easily.

I use this a lot when building shoes, almost every farrier's fuller is curved for just this purpose, and set for either right or left hands.

This is some of my early work that I have here in the house its a bit chunky but I hadn't had much practice at the time.


Sorry for the rapid reply's Im about to head out wanted to post this~

[K. Bryan Morgan]

It is?

Thats why I'm asking Grant. I don't know. I've been told that punching a hole makes for a stronger piece. It would seem to me that a hammered fuller, since is it displacing metal rather than removing it would be the same concept. But I have no idea. I havn't beed doing this as long as you.

[MattBower]

Thats why I'm asking Grant. I don't know. I've been told that punching a hole makes for a stronger piece. It would seem to me that a hammered fuller, since is it displacing metal rather than removing it would be the same concept. But I have no idea. I havn't beed doing this as long as you.

If you have two pieces of stock of exactly the same size, and you need a hole of diameter X in each of them, and you drill one of the holes and punch the other, the punched hole will be stronger because there's more material around the hole. Punching mostly moves metal, rather than removing it. (Slitting and drifting removes even less.) But if you're talking about two pieces that have the same final geometry, one forged and one made by stock removal -- as is likely to be the case with a fullered piece -- then that reasoning doesn't seem to apply.

Good article on forging vs. stock removal -- as applied to bladesmithing, but with lots of good, non-specific information.

[K. Bryan Morgan]

If you have two pieces of stock of exactly the same size, and you need a hole of diameter X in each of them, and you drill one of the holes and punch the other, the punched hole will be stronger because there's more material around the hole. Punching mostly moves metal, rather than removing it. (Slitting and drifting removes even less.) But if you're talking about two pieces that have the same final geometry, one forged and one made by stock removal -- as is likely to be the case with a fullered piece -- then that reasoning doesn't seem to apply.

Good article on forging vs. stock removal -- as applied to bladesmithing, but with lots of good, non-specific information.

Thank you Mat.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Thats why I'm asking Grant. I don't know. I've been told that punching a hole makes for a stronger piece. It would seem to me that a hammered fuller, since is it displacing metal rather than removing it would be the same concept. But I have no idea. I havn't beed doing this as long as you.

Yeah, I didn't understand the reference as well as Matt did. In the case of hot punching you often displace the metal adding a little more around the hole. Good call Matt.

And you're absolutely right Bryan, if the result is a wider bar.