E.F. Thumann Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hey guys, I figured a few of you would like to see some of the upper limits of what air/propane will do ......In the pics you will see 12 burners (tall ones) that are 10 Million BTU output, and the smaller one is rated 3 Million BTU. Notice spray can in pic for size comparison. Hence the topic description of 123 million BTU in one pic I make the burners from 304 and 316 S/S, the 10 Mils run on an 8" flex hose, powered by a 15hp blower, the 3 Mils run on either a 8" hose with a blastgate to slow the flow, or a 6" hose with an adapter plate. The burners have redundant ignitions, and all the failsafe solenoids you could ask for (they are powered by gas trains that we also make in the shop). The trains can be made full auto, with thermocouple feedback. Obviously they are too big to run in a home forge (the $20-25k price tag including the train might be a lil prohibitive too!) Mostly the burners go into large heat treating furnaces that we build...........in case you are wondering what they will do.............A pair of Ten Mil burners in a 18ftx18ftx60ft furnace will heat a 200,000 lb (<--not a typo) low alloy mild steel vessel up to transition temp (approx 1300 deg farenheit) in seven hours.............oh, and each ten mil is wide open, it consumes a gallon of LP EVERY 28 SECONDS:) Fun times:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Hey guys, I figured a few of you would like to see some of the upper limits of what air/propane will do ......In the pics you will see 12 burners (tall ones) that are 10 Million BTU output, and the smaller one is rated 3 Million BTU. Notice spray can in pic for size comparison. Hence the topic description of 123 million BTU in one pic I make the burners from 304 and 316 S/S, the 10 Mils run on an 8" flex hose, powered by a 15hp blower, the 3 Mils run on either a 8" hose with a blastgate to slow the flow, or a 6" hose with an adapter plate. The burners have redundant ignitions, and all the failsafe solenoids you could ask for (they are powered by gas trains that we also make in the shop). The trains can be made full auto, with thermocouple feedback. Obviously they are too big to run in a home forge (the $20-25k price tag including the train might be a lil prohibitive too!) Mostly the burners go into large heat treating furnaces that we build...........in case you are wondering what they will do.............A pair of Ten Mil burners in a 18ftx18ftx60ft furnace will heat a 200,000 lb (<--not a typo) low alloy mild steel vessel up to transition temp (approx 1300 deg farenheit) in seven hours.............oh, and each ten mil is wide open, it consumes a gallon of LP EVERY 28 SECONDS:) Fun times:) Next time my supplier says he is out I will know who to blame. Bad enough inna forge but when there are 2 huge porterhouses on the grill its Hoffa time. Grin. Ken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 wow... that is cookin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted September 13, 2010 Author Share Posted September 13, 2010 Found a pic of one of our 10 Mils being juiced up while we tested a gas train. When we fire them full bore, they hit a specific (and deafening) resonant note that we can feel in the shop 200 ft away from the testing area. The roar makes your lungs shake. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 So that what they mean by "Go big or go home . . ." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Lungs Shaking: I got to hear a Saturn V, (Apollo 11), go up from closer than the VIP viewing area, (Holiday Inn parking lot in Titusville just across the river from the cape...) and that is what I remember the most it was doing my breathing for me as my chest was resonating with the flickering flame sound... (Father worked for NASA during the 60's...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Sounds like standing near a top-fuel dragster/funny car. Fun times! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimenickel Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 and i thought i used alot of propane... at 30lbs tank in 45min nice burners Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted September 15, 2010 Author Share Posted September 15, 2010 and i thought i used alot of propane... at 30lbs tank in 45min nice burners Greg Greg, do your tanks freeze up on you dropping that much propane that quickly? We use 120 gph vaporizers to power each ten mil. It bypasses the freezing, as well as the pressure-drop issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGensh Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 E.F. Thuman, Nice burners! Is your business by any chance located near Ringoes in Hunterdon County? I'm in Rosemont and have been working on burners much smaller than yours- with much smaller propane requirements too. Those pictures are fun to see. Steve G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Lungs Shaking: I got to hear a Saturn V, (Apollo 11), go up from closer than the VIP viewing area . . . (Father worked for NASA during the 60's...) Oh, you lucky Sonovagun!! We only got to glue ourselves to the TV to watch all those launches Pictures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plain ol Bill Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Years ago I worked at a nuke site and was a welder on the containment vessel. Two inch plate, 200 ft. diameter and 300 ft. tall. They stress relieved the vessel in one burn using propane, diesel fuel and compressed air burners. Heated to 1500 degrees and held for two hours (as I remember). Don't know how much fuel they used but they had tankers of propane and diesel coming and going for two days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 "Pictures?" Well we have one of that lift-off inscribed by Werner von Braun to my father: "We couldn't have done it without you"... Growing up in the '60's with your father working for NASA was *cool*! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 Years ago I worked at a nuke site and was a welder on the containment vessel. Two inch plate, 200 ft. diameter and 300 ft. tall. They stress relieved the vessel in one burn using propane, diesel fuel and compressed air burners. Heated to 1500 degrees and held for two hours (as I remember). Don't know how much fuel they used but they had tankers of propane and diesel coming and going for two days. Bill, For the coal-gen plants, they make the coker drums (some people call them coker towers) out of 3-4" thick alloy steel, typically 25-30ft diameter, and approx 120ft tall. The drums require single heat stress relief. A recent job not too far from us required 15 Ten Mil burner trains (the big ones in the upper pic). The burners consumed approx. 19,000 gallons of propane in 11 hours That's in addition to 100+ heat-treating consoles that each power 18-24 high temp ceramic heaters (2,000 deg.) apiece. Each of the 100+ machines draws between 100-150 amps of 480v B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted September 16, 2010 Author Share Posted September 16, 2010 E.F. Thuman, Nice burners! Is your business by any chance located near Ringoes in Hunterdon County? I'm in Rosemont and have been working on burners much smaller than yours- with much smaller propane requirements too. Those pictures are fun to see. Steve G The shop is located in Hamilton/Trenton (depends on how the post office feels on any given day). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGensh Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Do you guys make the vessels too or are you in the process heating equipment business? I'm glad to see there is still some viable manufacturing going on in Trenton when so many of the old factories are empty and decaying. I hope it continues well for you. Steve G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimenickel Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 actually, the tanks would freeze solid ...but i keep them in a hot water bath... and have a gauge on the tank side to tell me what psi is available.. .. .. - i just run a garden hose from inside the house.. from the laundry tube to get the hot water on demand -sit the tank in a plastic garbage can heres small vid of my process - i've thought of going to one of those bottom siphon tanks but then i'd have to rethink my burner design... i'm in the small league compared to the volume your dealing with.. vaporizers ? do you scavenge heat from the burner or furnace, or is it by other means Greg Greg, do your tanks freeze up on you dropping that much propane that quickly? We use 120 gph vaporizers to power each ten mil. It bypasses the freezing, as well as the pressure-drop issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 Do you guys make the vessels too or are you in the process heating equipment business? I'm glad to see there is still some viable manufacturing going on in Trenton when so many of the old factories are empty and decaying. I hope it continues well for you. Steve G Steve, We manufacture all sorts of heating equipment for heavy industry (mostly petroleum, nuclear, coal-gen). Combustion heating, resistor-core ceramic pads (used in on-site pipe stress relief), infrared, induction, a lot of diff. product lines. As well as the computer controls for all of the above. The fab work in the shop is centered around the metalworking needs of the proprietary products, as well as specialty items (once people find out that they can have products custom-tailored to their needs, everyone wants to do it). We don't do vessels, although there is a local shop that does specialize in large ones (they roll the plate in house, but I believe they sub-contract the tank heads). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 actually, the tanks would freeze solid ...but i keep them in a hot water bath... and have a gauge on the tank side to tell me what psi is available.. .. .. - i just run a garden hose from inside the house.. from the laundry tube to get the hot water on demand -sit the tank in a plastic garbage can heres small vid of my process - i've thought of going to one of those bottom siphon tanks but then i'd have to rethink my burner design... i'm in the small league compared to the volume your dealing with.. vaporizers ? do you scavenge heat from the burner or furnace, or is it by other means Greg Greg, That's a beautiful setup! I like the simplicity:) I tell all my guys in the shop: if someone sees something you've made, and has to walk around for five minutes looking at it and trying to figure out what each piece does, then it's overly complex and a complete P.O.S. (KISS) The vaporizers are basically a whiskey still in reverse. (Ignoring the purification side of the distillation process). In a "still" you take the liquid, heat it, and run it through a cold coil to condense the vapor. Well in a vaporizer, you take the cold (relatively speaking of course) LP, and run it through a coil that is subject to a blast of hot air (heated by flame), and it vaporizes/boils the LP in the coil as it travels down the length, and emerges as propane gas at the outlet; and down the pipe to your screen filter (hopefully if you are running exensive solenoids!), regulators, gate valves, etc, and gets puked out as a 60" blue/clear flame The propane that powers the vaporizers is bled off the main LP line upstream of the vaporizer. Ahhhh canabalism! :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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