Torch Generating tons of CO in Forge but not out of it?

[Robert Simmons]

I have a couple of torches created, one is the reil burner with a MIG tip instead of a drilled jet. Another is a longer torch that is much heavier than I really want to use on my new forge. Since my forge is currently drying (and I gather it will have to dry for DAYS before it is useful, I put together 10 fire bricks to make a make shift forge with a 9 inch width and height and aimed the reil torch in from the back.

Both torches produce no appreciable CO that my ceiling fan cant handle when out of the forge though the reil doesnt give me a good core flame. However, when I threw it in the brick forge to try it out, it spiked CO off the chart and I ended up having to use a power fan to keep the CO level down. Any ideas why this might be happening? More importantly, how can I correct it. Thanks in advance.

-- Robert

[Mainely,Bob]

First let me say my experience is limited and it was a few years back so...

The contractors who rebuilt the smelting furnaces and homogenizer ovens used me as their in house welder so I got to pick their brains when it came to burners.
IIRC turbulence has something to do with the oxy-fuel mixture.A burner run in open air can draw more O2 from the turbulence surrounding it`s burn and when you put that burner to work in an enclosed forge/furnace/oven it no longer has that O2 available so it burns rich and needs to have the fuel cranked back or it`s air supply increased in order to burn cleanly.
Maybe that turbulence and it`s additional O2 during open air burn is contributing to the change?

[pkrankow]

Your burners are running rich. The tip on the Reil style may be too deep in the bell and not drawing enough air. You may also want to consider a choke.
Phil

[Robert Simmons]

Your burners are running rich. The tip on the Reil style may be too deep in the bell and not drawing enough air. You may also want to consider a choke.
Phil

You may be on to something there. I did some experiments on moving the nozzle. However, I guess the question would be why the burner is only running rich inside the forge and not outside it.

-- Robert

[pkrankow]

You may be on to something there. I did some experiments on moving the nozzle. However, I guess the question would be why the burner is only running rich inside the forge and not outside it.

-- Robert

Added back pressure on the business end of the burner reduces the air drawn into the cold end.
Phil

[evfreek]

Your burners are running rich. The tip on the Reil style may be too deep in the bell and not drawing enough air. You may also want to consider a choke.
Phil

Does adding a choke help when the burners are running rich? In my experience, choking a burner which is running rich only worsens the condition.

[Robert Simmons]

Yeah Choking wont hep running rich. I need more air in there, not less. I had thought of blowing the forge but the problem is I cant find any blowers that dont cost a metric ton of cash. I have been looking around for plans to no avail. I think you could combine blown with venturi where you have a pipe out the back of the burner hooked to the blower but holes in the side of the pipe before the reducer to act as a venturi when the blower isnt on.

Anyway, I need to solve this prob and perhaps backing off the nozzle is the ticket.

[pkrankow]

sorry about the brain fart. yes, choking makes it MORE rich, adjusting the position of the injector OR reducing the size of the injector are your choices.
Phil

[edge9001]

Yeah Choking wont hep running rich. I need more air in there, not less. I had thought of blowing the forge but the problem is I cant find any blowers that dont cost a metric ton of cash. I have been looking around for plans to no avail. I think you could combine blown with venturi where you have a pipe out the back of the burner hooked to the blower but holes in the side of the pipe before the reducer to act as a venturi when the blower isnt on.

Anyway, I need to solve this prob and perhaps backing off the nozzle is the ticket.

I've seen hair dryers used as blowers for gass forges, as well as bathroom fans. I've seen both used on gas and solid fuel forges. hope this helps

[pkrankow]

Adding a blower is an option. Using a hair dryer, very cheap from a second hand store or Goodwill or Salvation Army, you need to bypass the heating element. Sometimes you need to put a resistor in place of the element to get it working properly.

Instead of needing careful control over your flow, you control your air blast, and add fuel. A controlled orifice for metering is not required, you just set the pressure till it runs right. Getting a proper blower may cost more, but an old dryer or furnace can provide too.

Controlling your blast is simple with an air gate or a dump valve, or both.

Phil

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

No particular necessity to disconnect the heating element. Many have "air only" modes though. With the atmospheric burners, even if you improve it, everything will change when you make the opening a little smaller.