ofafeather Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Hi, All. After getting a taste of smithing in the Fall, I finally have a small smithy set up at home. I've been forging for a few hours a day for about a week now. One of the things that I sometimes find frustrating is using tongs. I have a few pair of decent tongs (Grant's OC brand 1/4" V Bit, 1/2" Gooseneck V-bit and Wolf Jaw to cover the rest in the smaller sizes). I also picked up a box of older tongs in assorted shapes and sizes. Grant's tongs are great. They really hold well with the square stock that I'm using. My biggest trouble seems to be after the shape changes a bit. The end is dressed in a taper, or ribbon and getting a good grip on the material can be a challenge. Maybe there's a bend for a hook, and I want to work on the other end, etc. Any suggestions? Also, Grant, if you read this, I need to adjust the 1/4" tongs. They reins are too close together now. What's the best way to do that? Thanks.~Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 A small adjustment just to the reins can be done cold. Put a piece of stock in the jaws and clamp the jaws together tightly in a vise. Then adjust a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Practice. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 You think using tong is frustrating, try doing it without tongs! :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted July 15, 2010 Share Posted July 15, 2010 Don't grab tapers. Find a way to work around it. Think about for a minute. What is happening when you try to grab the taper. It is trying to squirt out of the tong jaws. There are a few ways of dealing with this problem when making S-hooks. 1. Make the hook first, then grab the hook with a different type of tongs. The plane of the hook will resist rotation. 2. Use bolt tongs and let the hook poke out of the open part behind the bits like it shows on the gstongs www page. If you must grab a taper, leave a nubbin, and forge or grind it out later. Do not do a "death grip" on the tongs. The resulting overuse injury can be worse than a burn or an abrasion to an ungloved hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 A small adjustment just to the reins can be done cold. Put a piece of stock in the jaws and clamp the jaws together tightly in a vise. Then adjust a little. Thanks, Grant. Will do that. Practice. Experience always helps and I am getting better with time but I was hoping for a little guidance from the more experienced folks. You think using tong is frustrating, try doing it without tongs! Yeah, part of the frustration is that I can just picture how simple it would be if I could just use my hands instead of these 5lb chopsticks. Ever watch people eating with chopsticks for the first time? Don't grab tapers. Find a way to work around it. Think about for a minute. What is happening when you try to grab the taper. It is trying to squirt out of the tong jaws. There are a few ways of dealing with this problem when making S-hooks. 1. Make the hook first, then grab the hook with a different type of tongs. The plane of the hook will resist rotation. 2. Use bolt tongs and let the hook poke out of the open part behind the bits like it shows on the gstongs www page. If you must grab a taper, leave a nubbin, and forge or grind it out later. Do not do a "death grip" on the tongs. The resulting overuse injury can be worse than a burn or an abrasion to an ungloved hand. Thanks for the pointers here. My main tongs all are similar to the bolt tongs in that they have the open part behind the bits. This comes in really handy. I might try more flat tongs on the hook as opposed to square/diamond ones. I have a hard time keeping the stock in the plane I want it to be in sometimes with the v-groove tongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Tongs shouldn't weigh much for the average job done by a hand hammer. A lot of the larger tongs found in antique shops and flea markets were meant for large work under a power hammer. Most of my tongs are split out of 1/4"x1" flat stock so they don't weigh much at all. I have handled some of Grant's OC tongs, which are light and strong - but some of the Wolf Jaw sizes are too bulky for me. I also always use a ring on the tong handles so my holding hand is simply manipulating the tongs - not holding the reins closed. This makes for much less overall fatigue at the end of the day. If producing anything repetitive, I will also make tongs to specifically fit the work; often two or more sets are required for certain jobs. For example, I used to make a lot of J and S hooks and had three pairs of tongs so I could always have rods in the gas forge. In a pinch, plain jaw Vise-Grips will work on some types of odd forms such as tapers, although as already mentioned, they tend to squirt out while being hammered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted July 16, 2010 Author Share Posted July 16, 2010 Tongs shouldn't weigh much for the average job done by a hand hammer. I guess I was exaggerating a bit when I said 5 lbs. I think all of my tongs are in a reasonable size/weight range. Nothing for extra heavy work. I have handled some of Grant's OC tongs, which are light and strong - but some of the Wolf Jaw sizes are too bulky for me. I think Grant's tongs are great. Being new to this I went for the OC brand based on recommendations here. I also really appreciate the fact that Grant is a member of IFI. Now having personal experience of some of Grant's tools I can add my own personal recommendation. I have 3 different sizes/styles. The 1/4" V-Bolt ones are a dream because they are so light. The others are a wolf jaw that he makes and an 1/2" (or 5/8", can't remember) gooseneck v-bolt. I like this style a lot. The offset lets you hold stock well past the end and still have the tongs parallel to the stock. One problem that I have is that I don't have anything specifically for 3/8". The wolf-jaw does pretty well with this but, to me with my experience level, not as well as a dedicated 3/8" would do in one of the other styles. I also always use a ring on the tong handles so my holding hand is simply manipulating the tongs - not holding the reins closed. This makes for much less overall fatigue at the end of the day. That's good to know. I have used them a bit with the 1/4" but they kept sliding down. Guess I was squeezing a bit and the reins on the 1/4" flex a bit. If producing anything repetitive, I will also make tongs to specifically fit the work; often two or more sets are required for certain jobs. For example, I used to make a lot of J and S hooks and had three pairs of tongs so I could always have rods in the gas forge. I'm not quite up to making tongs yet, I don't think. I would like to, though. Can you leave the tongs in the forge, or is that bad? I've been avoiding that because I wasn't sure. That would certainly help when working with smaller pieces, though. One part of my frustration comes from trying to grip smaller things once they are in the forge. (I use a gas forge) Smaller items need to be repositioned a lot before they can be gripped. A coal forge is easier that way, having full access at different angles. In a pinch, plain jaw Vise-Grips will work on some types of odd forms such as tapers, although as already mentioned, they tend to squirt out while being hammered. I have a pair here somewhere. Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. All good things to keep in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 That's why I hate to see tong rings, some people leave the tongs on and stick the whole thing in the forge. Then they come out with red hot tongs. And of course then they take them off and quench them, no steel will stand up to that repeatedly. So, if you're going to have to take them off anyway.........take them off sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Was that too snippy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 One problem that I have is that I don't have anything specifically for 3/8". The wolf-jaw does pretty well with this but, to me with my experience level, not as well as a dedicated 3/8" would do in one of the other styles. C'mon Grant! Put on your salesman hat and sell the guy a set on tongs for 3/8" stock! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 C'mon Grant! Put on your salesman hat and sell the guy a set on tongs for 3/8" stock! Trying to restrain myself a bit from buying every tong I think off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 You really do need at least one of every size, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 That's it! I'm sold! Grant, can you loan me some money so I can buy some OCP tongs off this guy from some blacksmith forums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 Hey, count me in! Let's see, scrolling tongs, oh and those new ones you make, the universal v-bits, and every size in V-bit bolt tongs, except 1/4. I have 1/4. I'll need some goosenecks and maybe some duckbills, blade tongs, and...well just send them all. Bill it to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Washington, DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Just email me your credit card number and we'll take care of the rest! I need to set up a "Tong of the Month Club"! "But, honey! I can send em back if I don't like them"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Just email me your credit card number and we'll take care of the rest! I need to set up a "Tong of the Month Club"! "But, honey! I can send em back if I don't like them"! For less than a Coffee a day!! But wait theres more!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge9001 Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 for less than the cost of a coffee a day....but wait theres more....and if that's not enough, WAIT there's more!....and we're cutting the price in half!!! anymore info-mercial quotes....oh and If we start a tong of the month club, I'm in!!!! where do I sign up?? how about an anvil of the month, or maybe power tool of the month??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 If Grant hires Vince of 'Slap-Chop' fame to pitch his wares via infomercial, I'm outta here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofafeather Posted July 17, 2010 Author Share Posted July 17, 2010 anymore info-mercial quotes.... "Act now and we'll also include..." How about a tong group buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Operators are standing by! (batteries not included,some assembly required) If "Tong of the month club" takes off there are bound to be imitators.Could this lead to a tong war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 17, 2010 Share Posted July 17, 2010 Was that too snippy? No, that was the perfect amount of snip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge9001 Posted July 18, 2010 Share Posted July 18, 2010 Operators are standing by! (batteries not included,some assembly required) If "Tong of the month club" takes off there are bound to be imitators.Could this lead to a tong war? A tong war is that anything like a thong war? because those can be fun if the right women are wearing the thongs. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 I've sometimes needed tongs with particularly hot women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 I've sometimes needed tongs with particularly hot women. As with most things, skillful application of things like critical heat,manual dexterity, timing and the proper use of tools all come into play and can make all the difference when it comes to satisfying the customer and have them return again for future artistic endeavors.If you`re very good they may even tell their friends! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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