How do you build templates?

[monstermetal]

It seems like every time I set out to build a template I think there has to be a better way.. For exterior stuff I usually use 1/4 and 3/8 round bar hand bent and welded but for interior I hot glue bits of wood together, Slats from Home Depot which dont really work that great and sometimes can be a pain to cut precisely without making a mess. I see the granite guys use some white plastic strip but its not rigid enough for railing use...

So what do you do and what materials do you use?

[jeremy k]

notebook, tape measure, laser. - some jobs I make 40-50 measurements, all sorts including triangulations. This works well for me - then duplicate in the shop - build railings, install. - JK

[SGropp]

I use 2" wide strips of 1/2" 5 ply fir plywood , fastened together with 1" sheet rock screws [ at least 2 at each connection ]
All references , notes and angles are marked right on on the template with a black marker. Plumb, level and other critical orientation marks are drawn as well. Squeeze clamps are handy to hold it together before the screws go in.

I cut the strips with a jigsaw or sharp Japanese handsaw. Sometimes the template has to come apart to get out the door , make provisions to put it accurately together again.

Make the template strong and accurate so that it survives the trip back to the shop and on to the layout bench. Take your time , sometimes it is worth it to take a picture of the template in place at the site.

I seldom use a tape measure except in a general way. I've made over 80 stair railings and at least that many fireplace doors or screens using this method and have never had anything not fit the first time.

[Mainely,Bob]

I use a lot of story sticks/boards for recording measurements,they are more accurate and foolproof than tapes.
Some consider it a version of a story board but I learned about something called a joggle stick from wooden boat builders.You set up a piece 1/4" ply to record data on(or bending ply if it needs to be bent in more than one plane) and the info is transferred by the joggle stick.The stick is nothing more than a stick with a sharp point on one end and random V notches down both sides that`s been cut to appropriate length(mark one side as the UP/TOP side).Once the ply is in place then you put the point of the stick on the spot you want to measure while holding the body of the stick on the ply.You simply(carefully) trace around the body of the stick where it lays on the ply and then move to the next point and repeat.
Once you place the ply on the stock or rough jig your merely put the joggle stick within the (carefully)traced lines and the point tells you where your measurement was again.

If it`s a complicated piece that can`t easily be measured by one stick alone(like needing to reach around corners or obstructions) I just make as many different length or shape sticks as needed and label them A,B,C, etc on the up/top side and then after I trace I put the stick letter I was using inside the traced lines.The reason the V notches are random running down the sides is so if you try to put the wrong stick in the traced lines you will know because the notches won`t line up exactly.
If you`re anything like me and can lose things quickly(especially pencils and pens)just cut you joggle stick out of thicker wood stock and then once it`s profiled just rip it into 2 or more sticks and they`ll all have identical profiles.

If anyone prefers to make full size templates out of wood and you either missed the fit or what you thought was a repeating or mirror image shape turns out to be off(fits perfect on one but not the others) you can also use a steel rule as a joggle stick by just laying it on the template striking a line along one edge and recording the gap measurement on that line.

If you`re looking to generate fair curves nothing beats bendable battens of straight grained wood or ply,spring steel or consistent fiberglass.

Hope this has helped a little.

[Dillon Sculpture]

I use 3/8" x 3/4" iron by about 6' for my onsite templates of curved stairs, a bending rig consisting of a steel horse that I can bolt down, a vise and a home made bender that looks like a large pin bender. The bender is just a hinge made from 3/4" x 1 1/2" bar with three holes on each side of the center pivot pin for a 3/4" pin. I can over lap the bars by marking on the stair where one ends and the other begins I mark where the post and measurement to the nose of stair, etc on the bar and use these in the shop to make my top and bottom bar where I can roll or heat to manipulate 1/2" x 1 1/4" material or larger.

[welder19]

This is a great topic, especially for me cause I haven't done much of any of this type of work and not that I'm looking to be doing it anytime soon but I like to learn new things, but what would really make it a great thread is some pictures, since I haven't done it before I'm having trouble picturing some of the things being explained.
So if anyone has or could take pics of the jigs, patterns and tools being explained that would be great.

Thanks,
welder19

[monstermetal]

I use a lot of story sticks/boards for recording measurements,they are more accurate and foolproof than tapes.
Some consider it a version of a story board but I learned about something called a joggle stick from wooden boat builders.You set up a piece 1/4" ply to record data on(or bending ply if it needs to be bent in more than one plane) and the info is transferred by the joggle stick.The stick is nothing more than a stick with a sharp point on one end and random V notches down both sides that`s been cut to appropriate length(mark one side as the UP/TOP side).Once the ply is in place then you put the point of the stick on the spot you want to measure while holding the body of the stick on the ply.You simply(carefully) trace around the body of the stick where it lays on the ply and then move to the next point and repeat.
Once you place the ply on the stock or rough jig your merely put the joggle stick within the (carefully)traced lines and the point tells you where your measurement was again.

If it`s a complicated piece that can`t easily be measured by one stick alone(like needing to reach around corners or obstructions) I just make as many different length or shape sticks as needed and label them A,B,C, etc on the up/top side and then after I trace I put the stick letter I was using inside the traced lines.The reason the V notches are random running down the sides is so if you try to put the wrong stick in the traced lines you will know because the notches won`t line up exactly.
If you`re anything like me and can lose things quickly(especially pencils and pens)just cut you joggle stick out of thicker wood stock and then once it`s profiled just rip it into 2 or more sticks and they`ll all have identical profiles.

If anyone prefers to make full size templates out of wood and you either missed the fit or what you though was a repeating or mirror image shape turns out to be off(fits perfect on one but not the others) you can also use a steel rule as a joggle stick by just laying it on the template striking a line along one edge and recording the gap measurement on that line.

If you`re looking to generate fair curves nothing beats bendable battens of straight grained wood or ply,spring steel or consistent fiberglass.

Hope this has helped a little.

I was having a bit of trouble getting my head around this so I went to my friend Google ( I think someday Google will pretty much run the whole world) And this is what I found... A great explanationJoggle stick


I really like this... I can see it being a great tool to add to my site kit

[Mainely,Bob]

This is a great topic, especially for me cause I haven't done much of any of this type of work and not that I'm looking to be doing it anytime soon but I like to learn new things, but what would really make it a great thread is some pictures, since I haven't done it before I'm having trouble picturing some of the things being explained.
So if anyone has or could take pics of the jigs, patterns and tools being explained that would be great.

Thanks,
welder19

My son is coming up and bringing the camera and cords with him.I think he`s supposed to be here on the 18th so I`ll get him to help me post pics then.

[JNewman]

Making patterns I often need templates, on bigger templates I often start with a piece of thin plywood or masonite cut roughly to shape. I then glue on pieces of poster board to match the shape. oft White glue sets up quite quickly and cutting with scissors is easy. It is often easier to use a lot of little pieces of the paper glued together rather than trying to use big pieces. This method is probably more accurate than you need for most railings. The 1/8" thick masonite is available with the shiny side painted is cheap and is really handy for making all sorts of templates, the only problem with it is that it burns and doesn't stand up well if it gets damp.

[Mainely,Bob]

One of the reasons I gave up on masonite(called hardboard up here)and MDF is that it turns to xxxx if moisture gets to it.
I use what I call ply(as in plywood)but what it mostly consists of is discontinued paneling bought at deep discounts.The stuff I buy has one face that`s just 1/4" birch plywood.If it gets a little rain on it between the site and the shop then it`s no big deal.

The standardized templates that are used in the shop are made from either heavier gage sheet metal or aluminum(preferably from drops left from jobs) as they will be used repeatedly and they all have a hole drilled in them to hang up somewhere out of the way.

Some people save almost all their jigs and pile them up anywhere there`s room.They get to the point that even if you could use one you don`t know where to start looking.
I found it easier to just reduce a jig I suspect might be useful to an easy to store template with all the needed info written on it (including job#).
I found them most useful as a start point when I`m brain locked as to how I want to construct a jig.I look at a similar type job`s`s jig template and info,harvest the ideas and I`m off and running.
That series of pocket notebooks we`ve been talking about is also a big help at eliminating brain lock and storing info that maybe didn`t make it to the template.
The template has the job# which leads you to the paperwork which tells you the dates which gets you to the notebook(in this day and age maybe even a file # or CD with pics!) that recorded all the PITA problems you promised yourself you would avoid if you were ever stuck on a job like that again.
Ain`t havin` a system to fall back on grand!!

[Mark Aspery]

I see the granite guys use some white plastic strip but its not rigid enough for railing use...

So what do you do and what materials do you use?

[monstermetal]

So this is the rail I just built that got me thinking about templates..

As you can see there is not a lot of features or set points to "measure" sure there are some generality's that can be nailed down, but really a template is the way to get it right..






I built this out of some odd Hot roll I bought surplus, Its 1 7/16 in some places, 1 3/8 in others ( I dont know if it was poorly milled or just what) Its sure nice to work with solid though when you have complex curves, I think the time saving over working in tube more than makes up the material cost difference

[monstermetal]

I see the granite guys use some white plastic strip but its not rigid enough for railing use...

So what do you do and what materials do you use?

I like the white sheet/strip stuff.
It cuts (actually more breaks) along lines that can be put in with a butter knife. It welds together with acetone or like. Agreed, it is floppy but you can brace it.
I get it kinda close and then use a set of dividers rather like a timber-framer to score the final curve if I am doing an inside curve.

Other than that a chord of a circle and a set square and tape

Draw a straight line and divide it equally into a convenient division. Measure out at 90 degrees from the line to the wall etc and record the measurement. Repeat for each division of the chord.

This is then something that can be re-drawn in the shop.
A plumb bob will reduce a helix to a flat plane for a similar treatment. Record also the length of each drop to re-produce in this case.

[myloh67]

It seems like every time I set out to build a template I think there has to be a better way.. For exterior stuff I usually use 1/4 and 3/8 round bar hand bent and welded but for interior I hot glue bits of wood together, Slats from Home Depot which dont really work that great and sometimes can be a pain to cut precisely without making a mess. I see the granite guys use some white plastic strip but its not rigid enough for railing use...

So what do you do and what materials do you use?

Thank goodness for my photographic memory...., id be lost without it :D