Steel

[mmthomas]

Hello again. Beginning smith me here again to assail you with questions. I'm still setting up my forge tools at home, but getting very close to doing real work, now. I have found a source of scrap steel for practicing and possibly for later actual making of neat stuffs. Anyway, I picked through a variety of bits and pieces which I was told are mild steel. Some of it is "like a 50" and others "like a 36." I probably should have asked for elaboration at the time, but I was too busy drooling over steels scraps. As a beginner, I don't know much about steel types and am wondering if someone can tell me what 50 and 36 mean? Most of this scrap was from construction steel if that helps.

I also got a broken punch and some other odd bits that I will post photos of later to ask ideas what I might do with them. I may be able to get more broken punches in the future as well as old saw blades. Are those useful things that I want to have? Basically, I can pick through all the scrap if I want and/or have them set aside certain scrap bits if I want, but I don't know what's the gold and what is the dross. Perhaps I should mention that I could also pick up roughly 12" x 1/2" circles of mild steel and odd things like "old train wheel" if any of that sounds useful. Is any steel I can grab useful? Or should I only be trying to get stuff that is kind of normal-stock shaped?

Thanks,
Matt

[mmthomas]

Now with added pics.

Here's a picture of some of the miscellaneous mild steel pieces with quarter for reference.


These are some squares of tool steel and a punch with a broken off tip. I was thinking of dishing these squares for making leaves, but perhaps that is a waste of tool steel?


And, finally, these are the odd bits. I was thinking of flattening these plugs for practicing leaves, but perhaps someone more experienced can tell me if that is a waste or if there is a better use for them. I can gets hundreds of these bits if I want


Anyway, hopefully someone will be able to tell me if I've hit a jackpot of scrap steel or if this is good for practicing some stuff for a few years or if its not really what I should be looking for. I can probably get a couple hundred pounds of this type of stuff every few months if I want it.

Thanks for your time.

-Matt

[Frosty]

Matt: Yes, those are definitely quarters, get all they'll give you!

I don't know what A-50 steel is, a web search should render more info than you'll ever need or want to know. A-36 is the modern "mild" steel, it's performance specced rather than the old analysis specced steels like 1018 for instance. A-36 can be problematical but I've been able to devise techniques to make it behave for me.

Were I offered an unlimited buttload of steel scrap I'd take home a nice representative sample and do some experimenting to see what I can do with it. Were this offer made to me I'd be suspiscious someone were trying to avoid having to pay to have it hauled off but I'm just a suspiscious type.

I'd probably dress the broken punch and put a handle on it to see if it'd work as a top tool, a punch, of course. I'd bring home a goodly number of the tool steel pieces and experiment to see if they actually are tool steel. If they were I'd carefully place them in a well marked box and use them as I needed tool steel that size.

Frosty the Lucky.

[mmthomas]

Thanks, Frosty. He said that the 50 was harder than the 36, but that was it. I don't think he was specifically saying A50 or A36, but maybe he was. I may be able to ask him more about it later. I don't think he's just getting me to haul it, because he has literally tons of this kind of "waste" at the facility and said I could have a little of it (hundred of pounds being a little). I'm guessing they have enough that they can sell the scrap but don't mind missing a few hundred pounds here or there.

[pkrankow]

The punch in pic 3 looks like a pill punch, it may be S7, a tool steel. It is a heat tolerant and shock tolerant metal. DO NOT COOL BY QUENCHING IN ANY LIQUID! Let it air cool as it is an "air hardening" steel. Cooling between punching by quenching will crack it (if it is S7)
Phil

[Frosty]

I WAS joking about you becoming their scrap hauler! New guys SHEESH!

Phil has a good point about the punch, even if it isn't S-7 it's tool steel and you do NOT want to be quenching it or it'll become overhard and brittle. These are BAD things.

Frosty

[Gayle Brooks]

Good for you for sticking with it and being motivated!

My advise: Get some steel you can hang on to. I would probably put the tool steel away until you know exactly what to do with it and how to do what you want it to be. And obvious safety stuff like not putting painted steel in your fire, etc.

Stick with it! looking forward to see where you go

[ThomasPowers]

Don't use tool steel where mild steel will do! It is much harder to work and much easier to mess up with. It is also valuable trading stuff for conferences...

How thick are the circles? Thin stuff makes nice pots for medieval cooks, thick stuff makes nice bases for small ornamental items. Generally circles will come in useful somewhere somewhen.

[pkrankow]

While it is best to use appropriate tool steels to make tools, making tools out of mild steel (A36, 1018, etc) has been done, and will be done again. Tool steels hold up better for smaller tools, but for light work (or "one off" jobs) you can get a fair service life out of a mild steel tool.

For drifting holes to size don't be afraid of making a tool from mild to do the job. I know a lot of hammer eye drifts are mild, they simply make the final size and are not moving a lot of metal for a relatively heavy tool as the hole was formed by a different tool.

Sometimes it is easier to make the tool, use the tool, then make the metal you used into something else. I did that when I made my nail header, I used nail stock to make the drift to size the hole, then made a nail out of my drift to make sure the header worked the way I wanted it to.


Phil

[Sam Thompson]

If you are at all uncertain about the exact form that a tool should take, experiment with MS to perfect the angles etc. As pkrankow says, you can get a fair bit of service, especially if you case-harden it and keep it cool.

[JohnW]

50? I wonder if he could have been referring to 1050.

[mmthomas]

Thanks, all. I was able to find out a bit more. It is indeed A36 steel. The "50" refers to an A36 Grade 50 or "A36 modified" which is an A36 steel that has a higher carbon content. So, some is regular A36 and the rest is the A36-modified, other than the old punch which is still unknown. It's from the American Punch Company, though, so I might be able to contact them and find out what its composition is.

[Frosty]

Thanks, all. I was able to find out a bit more. It is indeed A36 steel. The "50" refers to an A36 Grade 50 or "A36 modified" which is an A36 steel that has a higher carbon content. So, some is regular A36 and the rest is the A36-modified, other than the old punch which is still unknown. It's from the American Punch Company, though, so I might be able to contact them and find out what its composition is.

I guess this just shows how long it's been since I was doing much fabricating. I've never heard of A36 grade 50, not that it means anything, (me not hearing about something that is.) I'd certainly be interested in doing some experimenting and testing of the 50, I wonder if there's any around here I can scrounge.

Sounds like you've fallen into a good relationship Matt, you should make the guy who's letting you salvage something nice. Coat hooks are a good early on gift as are boot scrapers, door knockers and various paper weights.

Frosty the Lucky.

[Frosty]

Okay, it's me again already! I did a little web searching and came up with more info than I need or want to know. These are the search terms I used: < A36 Grade50 Steel >

This is just one link that resulted from the above search. http://www.modernsteel.com/Uploads/Issues/March_2007/30763_steelwise_materials.pdf

I didn't do more than briefly skim a couple of the sites that resulted but if the nitty gritty isn't there directly a little reading will give you better search terms to narrow the hunt.

Frosty the Lucky.