Forge Materials for a Canadian Noob-Smith

[Toreus]

Hello everyone,

first time poster here.

I'm located in Winnpeg, Manitoba (about 3 hours North from Grand Forks ND, and I'm trying to get materials for this forge: http://home.flash.net/~dwwilson/forge/plan1.pdf

Question 1: Did I pick a silly design, considering I want a blower forge?

Question 2: Where can I find Kaowool (or equivalent), ITC-100 (or equiv) and firebricks for the bottom and door? I can't seem to find any shops in Winnipeg that sells that stuff.

Question 3: I've seen a lot of pictures of people using expired freon containers and the like- would an expired propane container do the trick?

Thanks guys!

[JNewman]

Old propane cylinders work but getting rid of the mercaptin stink is a pain. Make sure all the propane is out and DON'T USE A TORCH TO CUT THE BOTTLE use a jigsaw or plasma cutter to cut it open. Try local pottery supply businesses for the Kaowool. If you cannot find anywhere local Pottery Supply house in Oakville ON. will ship.

[Lenaghan]

Hey a another winnipegger!

I just finished building a new forge, so should be able to help you out i hope...

for almost all the stuff you want except the steel and ITC 100 you can get from The sounding stone pottery place. http://www.soundingstone.com/store.do?dispatch=catalog&categoryId=143
half way down the page is the blacket and bricks you'll want. For ITC 100 I had to get it shipped from the states, after shipping and taxes it ended up costing alot but made a big difference.
The shell of my forge is a old propane tank off a truck and works fine. If you need a propane regulator and hose I went to welder's supply.
Good luck

-Mike

[Dodge]

Hello everyone,

first time poster here.

I'm located in Winnpeg, Manitoba (about 3 hours North from Grand Forks ND, and I'm trying to get materials for this forge: http://home.flash.ne...forge/plan1.pdf

Question 1: Did I pick a silly design, considering I want a blower forge?

Question 2: Where can I find Kaowool (or equivalent), ITC-100 (or equiv) and firebricks for the bottom and door? I can't seem to find any shops in Winnipeg that sells that stuff.

Question 3: I've seen a lot of pictures of people using expired freon containers and the like- would an expired propane container do the trick?

Thanks guys!

This forge http://home.flash.ne...forge/plan1.pdf is a good design but seems a little over powered; I built a scaled down version of it with a 6" dia x 14" long fire chamber in a 10 " shell cut from a length of a discarded nitrogen bottle. Same as the model but 4" shorter. I used a the same refractory mortar I used over the ceramic wool (Inswool; the "other kaywool" ) to form the floor. I just cast a ¾” thick slab for the floor and blended the mortar into the floor. I didn't use any reflective coating like ITC. It would be fun to see if it makes a difference but it gets scary hot now with the scaled down burner. I used 1.25” pipe instead of 2” and scaled down the flame holder accordingly.

As for finding materials locally, is there a furnace or boiler maker in your area? Ask where they get their refractories. They may even have scrap enough for your project. Otherwise, mail order is a very doable alternative in about any area. Hope this helps

[Toreus]

Thanks guys!

JNewman- I completely hadn't thought of the Mercaptan! Do you think firing it once at low temp without insulation would do the trick? For getting the dregs of propane out, my plan was to fill it with water twice. I"d then cut the top off with an angle grinder.

Lenaghan- Cheers, mate! Do you think I'd be able to take a look at your forge (I'll send a PM)? the Sounding Stone looks to have good inventory, I'll check it out this weekend. Do you think I'd be able to use their kiln wash or hi-temp cement to surface the ceramic wool (the fiberfrax, right?)?

Dodge- Good to know I picked a good design . I'll definitely check the hospitals (oxygen bottles), AC repairs (freon bottles) and welding outfits (oxyacet bottles?) for expired ones. I was planning on using a hard firebrick cut in half for the floor (easily replaceable if flux gets on there), but I'll definitely investigate to see if casting it would work better. I'll probably scale it down somehow... BTW, is the front plate (door?) on your forge held on by the two bolts at the top and the pivot at the bottom? Is it sheet-metal and ceramic wool insert construction?

Also, what size of blower should I get? I was thinking of just cannibalizing a hairdryer and using a blade valve for more precise control...

Thanks again! :P

[Dodge]

Thanks guys!


Dodge- ... BTW, is the front plate (door?) on your forge held on by the two bolts at the top and the pivot at the bottom? Is it sheet-metal and ceramic wool insert construction?

Also, what size of blower should I get? I was thinking of just cannibalizing a hairdryer and using a blade valve for more precise control...

Thanks again!

Hmmm, sheetmetal! Wish I'd thought of that. Would've made construction easier LOL Actually its just an angle iron frame and the exposed wool is coated with mortar. It hangs with two hooks on loops at the top and a pin through loops secures it to the bottom. Front and rear door are identical. Sorry, no help on the blower. I just found one in a pile of salvage parts and it worked. I do in deed use a blade valve. Hard to mess up simple :D

[Toreus]

I finally managed to snag me an expired propane tank, so I'll be purging it tomorrow, acquiring the materials during the week (got everything sourced save the tuyere) and start the build next weekend. I'll try to post pics as I go along! :)

[Toreus]

Hey guys,

I've finally gotten the time to clean up the propane tank cylinder.

I let all of the propane out, twisted the valve off with a long wrench, filled it with water and then took an angle grinder to it.

I plan to make a base out of 1/8 x 1 galvanized stock and then bolt it on before putting in the ceramic wool. [1] Are there any problems with having holes UNDER the insulation? (I'm thinking the galvanized is far enough so it wouldn't burn.)

The shell I have left is 12in deep and has a 12in diameter. Assuming 2 layers of 1in wool, this would leave me with an inside area of (10-2)*pi*((12-2*2)/2)^2= 402 cubic inches. To start with I would have a door made of soft firebricks, eventually replaced by a door made with the cut off from the tank and attached the same way as Dodge's door.

I seem to remember people quoting numbers like 350in^3 per burner, but I think those were all for venturi burners. [2]Should I keep one big burner as planned, or move to two small/medium ones? Could I temporarily fill the unwanted space with soft firebricks (low thermal mass)? I'd like to be able to achieve welding temp, even if it's just for the small space that wouldn't be filled with firebricks.

[3] Have you guys needed to completely open both ends of your forge? I'm thinking of just making a small 2in x 3in opening at the back, plugged with a firebrick when not in use, but I'm not sure if it would be large enough...

Thanks for all your help,
T.

PS: The mercaptan smell isn't actually that bad. Wouldn't want it next to my pillow, but with 2in of refractory I won't even be able to smell it. Maybe because I flushed it with water then wirebrushed the dickens out of it?

[Toreus]

Edit: The images are HUGE! How do I fix that? I couldn't find anything in the Help section... :S

Hey guys!

Got the forge body welded up, and I did a fire test yesterday to make sure everything was working. Now I'm just waiting for a dry day so I can install the refractory and get it curing.



I still haven't fine-tuned the mixture, but I want the refractory in before I do that.

More detailed pictures:

The flamestop is a foot-long piece of .25in flat bar cold-twisted about 300*. (I love overly large pipe wrenches ) Worked well, since you can see a piece of paper taped right above it.

I'm really happy with how the doors came out- they're very easy to put on, even one-handed. I will put large wingnuts on to make it feasible when the forge is running full blast.

Sucker heated fast! I had it on for about 50-60s and after it cooled, I noticed these lovely oxidation colours.

Thanks to everyone, a more helpful group of people would be very hard to find!

And lastly- does anyone have any comments/suggestions for this forge?

Cheers,
T.

[Glenn]

Old propane cylinders work, Make sure all the propane is out and DON'T USE A TORCH TO CUT THE BOTTLE use a jigsaw or plasma cutter to cut it open.

NOT TO USE FLAME when cutting any closed container. Plasma throws bunches of sparks accompanied by vast volumes of air. If there is anything flammable in the container you will not hear it go BOOM, but if your lucky, the neighbors, the fire department, and the hospital may be able to relate the story from their prospective.

[Toreus]

NOT TO USE FLAME when cutting any closed container. Plasma throws bunches of sparks accompanied by vast volumes of air. If there is anything flammable in the container you will not hear it go BOOM, but if your lucky, the neighbors, the fire department, and the hospital may be able to relate the story from their prospective.

I didn't use flame at all- I opened the valve and put the tank upside down to vent any remaining gas, then I unscrewed the valve. I filled the closed container with water to the top to ensure there was nothing left. I then used an angle grinder to remove the front and bottom, which have now become the front and back.

If you guys can think of any other steps/processes to make it safer, I'd be glad to hear them!

T.

[Swamptroll]

have it steam cleaned first