Brasilikilt Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I got to thinking.......... I initially decided to go with a coal forge for ease of construction, and the traditional aspect of it, plus so many veteran smiths explained that coal is also a lot cheaper than using propane. It didn't occur to me at the time that the guys saying that lived in places like Pennsylvania, Ohio and Kentucky, and likely had not ever purchased coal in Oregon... If I build smaller fires and act very frugally with my coal, I can squeeze 12 maybe 16 hours of forge time out of a sack of coal, but this practice usually allows for forging of single pieces at a time. If Blacksmith's coal is $23/bag, and you have to drive 1/2 hr one way to get it, and propane is around $2.50/gallon and sold right down the street, ......would it be cheaper and more effective to go with a propane forge? I'm not quite sure how quickly your average home-built propane forge (capable of welding heats), burns through a gallon of gas, so I'm not able to do the math on my own. I'm also thinking that the type of regulator you use, and cost of purchasing/leasing a propane tank adds to the cost of a gas forge. I know too little about gas forges, so I was hoping that you guys would chime in and help me understand them a bit better, and perhaps suggest some versatile fuel efficient models. Thanks Iain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWCarlson Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 On a theoretical basis it would be pretty simple to calculate how much it cost per BTU for each fuel if you know how many BTUs your coal is rated for and LP should be easy to figure out. Then you can add in fuel costs for the coal and tank cost for the propane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 There are other solid fuel options. Corn is talked about regularly here. Charcoal, available from restaurant supply stores or you can make your own if you have the space. There are several blogs stating that people make charcoal from builders scraps. I have a 2 burner that I built. It uses two 3/4 inch naturally aspirated burners, .035 contact tip orifice. I can have 2-4 sessions of about 1 1/2 hours on a 20# exchange bottle (15# fuel). Welding sucks up a lot more fuel though. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I used coal for everything up until about 15 years ago or so when I finally built a two burner gas forge. I now have both types and use coal only for welding and odd sized work that won't fit in the gas forge because almost anything can fit in a coal forge but not everything will fit inside a hot box. However, even when coal was relatively cheap, it was still expensive for me because I live in Central Texas and am far away from all the good sources. Coal can be extended if you work it wet - you didn't say how you manage the fire but that might help a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 propane is used at 1-2 gallons a hr usually so coal is still cheaper but it kinda depends on what your makeing as a propane forge will heat a big group of rods and not burn um .so if your produceing a bunch of one item that you can heat up in big batches it may be much better . ive used bolth and there are pluses and minuses to each . you might find out if you buy in quanity if the coal price goes down . i buy from a company called L brand coal and coke company. they sell it by the ton . if you do get a ton be prepared for the bags falling apart after a couple months (i guess they are biodegradeable) otherwise it ends up a big mess ... and a tarp over it dosnt stop the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstein Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Keep in mind that it is more difficult to get localized heat when working with propane, depending on your forge. I started with a diamondback two burner forge, and after working with Brian Brazeal, i decided to build a coke forge with a Roger Lorance firepot. My learning increased substantially due to the fact that i could control what i wanted to heat much easier. i have both but use my coke forge way more. Of course it helps that i get coke for free from a metalurgical analysis company! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 propane is used at 1-2 gallons a hr usually so coal is still cheaper but it kinda depends on what your makeing as a propane forge will heat a big group of rods and not burn um .so if your produceing a bunch of one item that you can heat up in big batches it may be much better . ive used bolth and there are pluses and minuses to each . you might find out if you buy in quanity if the coal price goes down . i buy from a company called L brand coal and coke company. they sell it by the ton . if you do get a ton be prepared for the bags falling apart after a couple months (i guess they are biodegradeable) otherwise it ends up a big mess ... and a tarp over it dosnt stop the problem. L brand coke is good stuff (except when it gets wet - POW!). Our local group bought a few bags some years ago and split it up. I recently finished off the last of my supply so now it's back to coal...and you are right about the bags - they rot to pieces in short order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamj Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 im the same way its 45 min one way to get my coal for $23 or so but its all i got to work with i borrowed a farrier propane forge and dont care for it. when i move to my new place i will have somewhere to put a ton at a time (after i decide where to set up shop) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymm Hoffman Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I switched to propane in 1993. First system used about 1 1/2 gallons per hour. New systems use 1/2 gallon to 3/4 gallon per hour. I have not used coal in my shop since. I do miss the localized heats, but that is it. I can either use a torch or dip parts in water to get the localized heat. Shop is much cleaner, so are my lungs. I don't spend any time chasing, hauling or cleaning up after coal. I think I am healthier because of it. If I could afford the start up cost, I would try one of Grant's induction furnaces. See my other posts about gas forges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Induction are the way to go if you can afford one or have the electronic know how to build one, there is a guy over at bymc that built one. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 I switched to propane in 1993. First system used about 1 1/2 gallons per hour. New systems use 1/2 gallon to 3/4 gallon per hour. I have not used coal in my shop since. I do miss the localized heats, but that is it. I can either use a torch or dip parts in water to get the localized heat. Shop is much cleaner, so are my lungs. I don't spend any time chasing, hauling or cleaning up after coal. I think I am healthier because of it. If I could afford the start up cost, I would try one of Grant's induction furnaces. See my other posts about gas forges that is a good point and its why i went to coke (besides cost) . one thing about propane as it can cause a dry hacking cough.i noticed it at my last conference hanging around the propane forges . also remember with whichever forge you need good ventelation ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisfrick Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 (edited) I recently switched to coal from charcoal as I really liked how much hotter the coal seemed to get versus the quantity and burn rate. I've found a place in SFO (Lazzari) that sells coal and my first couple bags turned out to be their "fireplace" coal--bowling ball sized chunks and got em for about $15 per 50 lb sack. I then spent *way* too much time busting them up, but then again had to do the same with the charcoal, so I count it as a wash. (long story short, I had my brother pick up the coal and he isn't familiar with it, so didn't question the "lumpyness" of the sacks--next time I'm going to pick it up myself.) Anyhow, I figured out that I have been spending approximately $0.70 per pound of lump charcoal from the local mega-mart, about $0.33 per pound for the "fireplace" coal, and have been quoted approximately $0.54 per pound of the nut-sized "blacksmith" coal. Added into the equation would be the travel expense of going from Sacramento to San Francisco, but I do visit my brother on occaision for other reasons so it's just a matter of driving about the same time to the mega-mart to pick up charcoal. The only other "cheaper" option would be to make your own charcoal--if I could I would, but then I still like coal! -Chris Edited December 24, 2009 by chrisfrick grammatical errors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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