NRunals Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 hey, i'm about to make a hammer for a friend of mine who is just getting into blacksmithing... i just realized i had an old axle laying around in the shop. so i figured i'd ask first before i wasted a couple hours.. axles are medium carbon right? if so will medium carbon be tough enough with just a quench and no heat treating? will it be hard enough? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Axles are normally 4140 or En25/26 or 4340, water quench and no HT = way too hard. Oil quench and no HT = a little too hard. Better to oil quench and temper by burning the oil off in the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Everywhere I read it says around 1045 or so. Many people make hammers from axles anyways. I sure hope so, that's why I've been collecting the spindles from the tractor wheels when they break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Hmm, quenching IS heat treating. Quenching hardens it, why would you not want to draw it after? At the very least put in the wifes oven at 450 for awhile. "axles are medium carbon right"? Maybe and maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRunals Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 i misspoke... or mistyped i suppose... i meant to say "quench and no temper". and yeah i was just checking about the temper on med carbon I've read a lot about people making tools out of it and heat treating it in one action... but now that i think about it i believe that was a draw knife which needs to be harder than a forging hammer. hmm well... without knowing the carbon content i guess i'll just test it with a file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerbud Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 It does not matter if it is 1045 or 4140 or whatever. Tempering will be the easiest part of the equation and it will ensure that your hammer is tough. Even though there are specific temp requirements for each type of alloy, you can't go wrong with heating up to non-magnetic or orange/yellow and then quenching in hot oil. wipe all the oil off, Put it in the oven at 375 degrees F, for at least an hour or so, then shut off the oven, leave it in there the rest of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazerbud Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I was fortunate to sit through a demo by Dave Smucker at the John C. Cambell folk school. Heat Treating Toolsteel - Tips - Techniques & Useful Information This link has some easy to understand technical descriptions of the whole mysterious hardening-tempering issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRunals Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 i may be mistaken but i don't think 375 F is hot enough to even draw a pale yellow . i was under the impression that yellow was around 420 or 430. it'd be real simple if i could just know what the carbon content is instead of guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRunals Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 ooo i really like that chart that tells the RW hardness of diff types of steels when quenched. thanks :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 That is a really informative link that you posted there, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EWCTool Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 An axle is put under a lot and stress just being an axle, therefore the metal is metallurgically designed to overcome that stress. this makes it a very tough material and when you forge it, you will notice that it does not move under the hammer as much as other metals would. I have heard of people just heating the face to a cherry red and quenching in oil. Maybe they would temper the edges just because if it will chip 90% of the time it chips on the edge. I once read that someone made a hardy from axle shaft and quenched the cutting edge. They missed the metal and the hammer hit the quenched edge but because it is not a super hard metal and more of a tough steel it did not shatter. I also knew a professional blacksmith who once made a hammer from truck axle and he told me it was his favorite hammer. If it worked for him why can’t it work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRunals Posted December 24, 2009 Author Share Posted December 24, 2009 this isn't the hammer that the thread was originally about, i didn't get a chance to take a picture of that one, but it turned out nicely. this one is from the same axle though. overall i'm pretty happy with it. it's tough enough and hard enough. the only thing i'm not pleased with is the transition from the hole to the claw. it isn't as pretty as it once was, i guess i got careless somewhere in the process... oh well, something to work on next time right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wampus Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Nice! ~~W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I've made several hammers out of "OLD" axles, which I assumed were 1045. Most of them were cross peen forging hammers. The eye is not hardened, because the thin cheeks will harden before the face and peen, and they may crack. I heated the face area to harden at the edge of a coke fire and quenched vertically in water. After abrading the face to bare metal, the head goes in the vise, face up. I use a 7/8" square, turned eye tempering tool with enough remaining straight for a handle. The turned eye at a welding heat will fit snugly over the hammer face end, and I've taken the faces to a dark straw color, about 465ºF. The "wet rag method" is used by wrapping the finished head in a wet rag and holding it with large bolt tongs when heating the peen for hardening. After the peen is quenched, it goes in the vise peen up and keeping the wet rag in place. I temper the peen usually to a purple using an oxy tip. Truck junk yards have old 18 wheeler axles which average 2" in diameter. I square them with a power hammer before punching the eye. A 1 5/8" square will yield about a 3 pound hammer. http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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