dcam13 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Hi At our Heritage Railway site it has come time to install our Blacksmiths Hammer so that we can swage down boiler tubes. The hammer is a two piece machine that stands approximately 94 inches tall while the base on the hammer side is 63 inches X 32 inches square with six 1,1/4 inch Hold down holes. The Anvil fits into an octagonal hole in the frame of the hammer, it stands 40 inches tall X 18 X 18 inches with two 1,1/4 inch hold down bolt holes. We have a solid block of Tasmanian Eucalypt hardwood approximately 32 x 32 x 32 inch which we buried for about 8 years to avoid it drying out too quickly and splitting. Would I need to brace this block with steel strapping. I need to find out as much as possible about foundations required for this machine. The soil appears to be reactive clay i.e. while its wet its fine but if it dries out it shrinks. We have a site for the hammer that needs to be dug out so how far down do I go, I was thinking go as far as the excavator arm will dig, put down a layer of geo-textile, compact in a good thickness of crusher dust, pour a thick slab of high strength reinforced concrete up with 4 spigots to locate the wooden block on, Between the wooden block and the concrete a sheet of conveyor belting. Now how do I put good sized holding down bolts through a large lump of wood to hold down the Anvil? Between the Anvil and the block of wood, another piece of conveyor belting. Does the main body of the hammer have to be on as thick a slab of concrete, do I put a sheet of conveyor belt under and tighten down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I already posted some information under your original posting: please click on this link: http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f23/hello-15576/#post144348 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
781 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Some of the group here in the states are mounting their larger nazel air hammers on thich steel plate I have a 250# Murray mechanical hammer and the original specs were for it to be set on concrete 4' X 5' 3' thick This is the installation I used but the nieghbor knows when I run the hammer as it rattles dishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Have you considered putting a friction pile foundation below the hammer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcam13 Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 As size goes what size approximately is the hammer I have described as compared to 781's, 250# Murray mechanical hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 based on your picture I would guess your hammer is between 150-200 lb tup weight. I would guess that would put your machines overall weight range between 7 to 9 thousand... I would guess that 250 lb murray would be under the very bottom of that range. 5000-6000 lbs... Thats a lot of guesses but I think Im pretty close. I have a 3B Nazel (280lb tup) and a 2ch Chambersburg (200lb tup) both are just sitting on a concrete floor with no additional foundation (a wood crib to isolate but no metal or concrete) My hammers are both one peice machines so that makes the anvil placement moot. As far as your situation I would say the larger the initial foundation the better the performance of the hammer, the isolated mass under the hammer has a direct impact on its function. You can never get to big, only to expensive. So yeah, I would dig as deep as you can with the excavator if you dont mind the concrete expense. A couple yards of mud in a big hole is way more than most of these hammers are set on. I have not set up a two peice hammer but my understanding is the hammer frame is secured to the foundation but the anvil is not, the anvil floats on the foundation and is aligned to the frame by driving wedges around the anvil... I dont know about the block of wood under it.. Seems to me that would not be a good thing. A small layer of wood to act as a insulator I understand, but that's really what your conveyor belt is doing.. a 32" thick chunk of wood seems to me like it would rob much of value of the concrete below. I would send Grant (nakedanvil) a private mail and ask what he would do, Grant has forgot more about powerhammers than most people will ever know and Im sure has set up several that are similar to yours. Another good resourse is Bob Bergman of the postville blacksmith shop. You can find a phone number for Bob by putting his name and postville in Google Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcam13 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 Thank you for the information, hopefully in the New Year installation will begin,then setting up the forge. Our first job will be to swage some Boiler tubes from 5,1/4" down to 4,1/4" Does anyone know whether tubes shorten in length when swaging or do the increase in length. Is there a calculation for this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Looks almost exactly like a Nazel. Trouble you'll run into is the anvil and frame sit at different elevations. Should be some people in your area that have experience with this kind of installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 As Grant mentions the heights are very important, if you set the anvil too low you could tear the hammer appart and possibly hurt someone the first time you use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 (edited) With this type of hammer, if you set the anvil too low, I GUARANTEE you will damage the hammer if you use the hammer and the upper die cannot reach the piece you are intending to forge (or the upper die just reaches it). If the anvil sits too low, the upper portion of the ram will hit the lower ram guide. Figuring out the proper height for your anvil is not difficult. Since the ram is (currently) hanging down, you should be able to assume it is all the way down. To determine the correct height of the anvil, the top of the die on the anvil (lower die) should be positioned to be about an inch higher than the current bottom of the upper die. When the hammer is operating, this will prevent the ram from hitting the lower ram guide on the down stroke. The one inch gives you room to dress the dies (in the future) if you need to. To determine where the anvil needs to be bolted down (position of bottom of the anvil base), just measure the distance between the bottom of the anvil base and the top of the anvil's die. The anvil needs to be mounted on a base (separate or integrated to the frame base) which is one inch higher than it would take to just have the two dies touching one another. In the future, if you change dies, you also need to remember to take this into consideration. The new dies must also have this physical space overlap. Explanation: The ram is a free floating object that is controlled (up/down actions) by valves managing the air flow (generated by an integrated air compressor). The upper portion of the ram (larger diameter) works as a piston in a cylinder. The lower portion of the ram (smaller diameter) slides in a guide, through which the top of the ram cannot pass. If the ram is allowed to fall (or be pushed by air) into the lower ram guide, it will break the ram guide (trying to force part of it down). This will destroy the ram guide (and possibly damage the ram itself) and put the operator at risk (from flying broken metal). This is prevented by having the top die hit the bottom die with about an inch of clearance between the (piston portion) of the ram and the top of the ram guide when the ram is at its lowest possible position (which is boundaried by the dies hitting one another). That's my story and I'm stickin to it. Edited December 5, 2009 by djhammerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcam13 Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hi Everyone The State of Tasmania is the small island off of Mainland Australia. As far as I am aware we will have the only working hammer in the State when installed so I guess we are trying sustain/retain/ re-learn what has been the dying skills of Blacksmithing in this State. The only other hammers are those that are stuffed and mounted in the former Tasmanian Government Railways Blacksmiths shop at Launceston, Tasmania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcam13 Posted November 14, 2011 Author Share Posted November 14, 2011 Hi Its been a long time since I have accessed the forum mainly because I updated computers and lost everything. I have a few photos to share of progress in installing the hammer I guess the weight of the rest of the hammer could be about 3 tonnes so I hope I can lift it over the anvil with our forklift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Far better to pass the hat and rent a bigger lifter than to have a possibly tragic *oops* moment! Looking good so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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