longfletch27 Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 found this on ebay, looks like a rr spike hawk, but the description says its an antique from the french indian war, i dont think we had railroads back then?? also it looks like a mass produced hammer handle on it... i think their trying to rip people off with that high price rr spike hawk...but im no expert.Fantastic American Indian Spike Tomahawk - eBay (item 280384905467 end time Aug-20-09 09:38:24 PDT) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I'm at a loss for words... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 File burned handle "looks original to the piece" but the pattern of indentations does not match the files of that period---too regular teeth pattern. Bad fake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBBrauer Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 (edited) I would question the shape and symmetry of the handle. It looks like a modern hammer handle. Not that somebody couldn't have carved one that perfect with a drawknife, but I have my doubts. There may have been railroads in that area at that time. Here is a link with a timeline:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_railroads_in_North_America Edited August 14, 2009 by JamesBBrauer added link for rr history Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 of course the spikes used on the early wooden or wooden with an iron cap rails are not like the spikes designed for the "modern" fish plate. If you ever get to Manasses VA the town museum has several examples of ACW wrought iron rails that are quite differnt from modern rails on display. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I don't "do" e-bay,but i have looked there once,and found some interesting stuff:Apparently,e-bay encourages people to volunteer expert articles on a particular subject. The one on axes,and the collecting of axes,i found very interesting,can highly recommend reading it. One of the things that particularly struck me is that there indeed are a lot of modern reproductions being passed off as antiques,many of them involving some very competent forging.I just thought it curious,that some of "us",the forging folk,are actually in the biz of faking artifacts! But the article,in my opinion,is very worth reading for it's historical information.Of course,the very point of it is to help people to differentiate between the real and the fake(very challenging,at times!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longhunter Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Rairoads did not make there way into our world till much later horse and wagons and canoes , boats , oxen were your mode of travel in the days you speak of. that is a real scam that guy is trying to pull or he was duped into buying it from someone and he is try to regain some of his money back Edited August 30, 2009 by longhunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 ....One of the things that particularly struck me is that there indeed are a lot of modern reproductions being passed off as antiques,many of them involving some very competent forging.I just thought it curious,that some of "us",the forging folk,are actually in the biz of faking artifacts!....... I have talked to people both smiths, and other craftsman who made stuff, but was later resold as original. Their intention was to make quality reproductions that people could afford and enjoy, not to counterfeit anything. They were unhappy when they came across people trying to sell those items as original. On the other hand I did meet a smith at an Early American Wrought Iron Conference, many years ago, that showed me a deliberately aged counterfeit slave collar, and was told by him that he made *all* such items sold in the relic shops in Gettysburg. My preference it is to give craftsmen the benefit of the doubt, believing that most items are intended as quality reproductions. When I visit antique malls and relic stores, I am *always* impressed by the number of obvious poorly made reproductions (often including arc-welding, plywood, Masonite, wood putty, and modern cast carriage parts) that are sold as original. My expectation is that if you make a decent hand-crafted product, it will eventually be sold as "original" after it has changed hands a few times and lost its pedigree. As for the historic time-line, according to Wikipedia: - French and Indian War, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yes,that's probably true that if/when any fraudulent representation takes place that it's more likely not the craftsman perpetuating it-we,the craftsmen,are too dependent on our reputation,for one thing.(Besides having a set of morals and ethics WAY above an average mortal,naturally!) There's a fairly simple solution to any possible confusion-touchmark.I'm not sure,being remote and largely out of the loop,but it seems that the few "touchmark registry" type devices are not organised or patronised enough.It could really benefit all,if the use of such a deal by smiths was more widespread,and maybe sanctified by some higher authority,like ABANA or an equally prominent creature. And,to use this chance to opine on the related topic:I'm often disappointed* when i come across a topic typically asking where can one have their touchmark machined.Seems like a smith can/should be able to forge one's signature,kinda a matter of pride for me,personally,like forging one's own tongs.Also,a forged touchmark will not be as incongruous on a piece meant to be close period reproduction.Though,of course,an obvious CNC stamp will leave much less doubt as to provenance! *"No appointment-no disappointment!",Aldous Huxley. All the best,Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I mark most of my stuff with a month and year of manufacture, along with touchmark... to keep that from happening.... I see this too.. and wonder... doesn't know? doesn't care? desperate? playing a big joke? why...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 ...There's a fairly simple solution to any possible confusion-touchmark......All the best,Jake I agree that touchmarks would be wonderful, however: - I have seen reproductions with touchmarks being sold as original. That seems fairly common around here and does not prevent vendor claims that items are original. It is not unusual for vendors to use the touchmark as a way to support their claim of originality. - Most smiths and other craftspeople are doing the best they can. For many people touchmarks are a luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I agree,all that makes sense.However,than it certainly relegates the responsibility onto the emptor-if it's marked,one needs to try to find out whose mark that is,then. I'm sorry,but i don't quite get that-why/in what way a touchmark is a "luxury"? Respectfully,Jake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 CBrann-I don't know,people are funny that way!(Some of us...).Not too long ago,there was quite a deal when this guy sold two antique chairs to the H.Ford museum in Deering,MI(methinks).They were so happy to get those(very rare)chairs,that a special exibit was organised around them. The guy,who actually made them himself,was dreadfully disappointed that they didn't catch on,and ratted himself out.They would not believe him,and so everyone went back and forth till the guy pointed out the location of the microchip that he built in... Funny psychology,this...Who knows what motivates one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 ....I'm sorry,but i don't quite get that-why/in what way a touchmark is a "luxury"? Respectfully,Jake. Hopefully you will always be situated in life so that the concept of a touchmark as a "luxury" remains forever elusive. Best wishes for a long and prosperous life, Dave E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecelticforge Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Yep, it's a fake. The iron has been aged with some chemical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Dave!You have me totally intrigued now!I beg you,tell how can something like that be a luxury?As in making one(?),or the priviledge of producing work under one's mark...(?).I'm not being facetious,i swear-i'm honestly puzzled! Materially speaking,i doubt that you'd ever likely to come across someone as poor as meself-the official poverty level is more money that i've EVER made...I'm practically not a part of the cash economy,right this moment i posess $0,never had a bank account in my whole life,hand to mouth AS IT GETS!(and proud of it),but,i've had my touchmark many years now.Buddy of mine has given me a chunk of D2,no big deal,has been using it for ever...So,you've lost me! Sincerely,Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Dave!You have me totally intrigued now!I beg you,tell how can something like that be a luxury?.....,Jake Perhaps someone who is better with words could explain it, as I don't really know if I can. Some people, have more than a full plate, more than they can emotionally, physically or economically deal with on a daily basis. It is not just economics that makes something a luxury, but sometimes also the other factors that one has to deal with in life. People do the best they can, really they do. If they don't have a touch mark, and/or don't put their touchmark on every tent stake, fork, or other product, it could mean that the extra time and fuel to touchmark that $1.50 tent stake or other product is the difference between profit and no profit. Or it could mean that they just plain have other priorities for their time in order to deal with their life and responsibilities. Hopefully someone better at explaining stuff can explain how making and applying a touchmark, can be a luxury if other things have a much higher priority. Dave E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Thank you,Dave,for your attempt to clarify this.You write very articularly,but any logic in all of the above still simply eludes me...It must be that i'm way out there socially,as well as economically. If things on the grid are indeed that tough,then please accept my condolences,i do live a charmed lifestyle out here,it seems. Thanks again,and all the best wishes,Jake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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