piglet_74 Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 The other day I was putting an end on a piece of 1" by 1/8" flat stock similar to a strap hinge. I started by forging a point which I had a hard time keeping short. My blows would drive the piece back at me. I probably should have been holding it against myself to sure it up I guess. So I ended up making the point longer than I wanted. the other issue was trying to create a shoulder behind it to taper the bar behind the spade. I really wasn't sure what I should be doing. I have a square faced hammer so I tried to keep the right side edge of the hammer in line with the far edge of the anvil so the handle would also be parallel to the far edge. When I brought the hammer down I tried to bring it down with the hammer face on an angle also. This was hard to do. I missed a lot. Pretty well trashed the end of the piece. So in short I was wondering if the idea was right but the execution was poor. I'll post a pic of the planter it became part of tonight maybe. Thanks in advance. Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I would like to see the pictures. I think I have a feel for what you are trying to accomplish are you trying to put a spade shape at the end of your stock. 1/8" stock would have to be compressed. which is kind of thin to do you have to have the right heat to hot it will just roll over. the other option would be to cut away to get the shape. Hammer control is very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) That is a tough profile to start with 1:8. You may want to chisel the point, but if you want to forge a short taper, try using drawing dies. What I mean by "drawing dies" is large fullers, like the horn of your anvil and a rounding or fullering hammer on top. I'm assuming your doing this freehanded. To make a point place the material in the middle of the horn and strike with your hammer so the dies match. You'll have to check your material back to rectangle with every good blow for a while because of the extreme profile you chose, but if you can hit the spot, you can draw out a shorter and quicker taper on drawing dies than you can on full surface flat dies held at an angle. This hammer technique can be challenging at first, but it is very useful for many things. Hitting the material with your rounded dies while the very tip is in the center will make a point, but if your dies are not lined up or your material is not placed correctly under the dies, you will be doing something that will be doing something else. When I do straps, I usually start with round or square stock, displace the material then take it to rectangular. Edited August 11, 2009 by brianbrazealblacksmith add more info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 Another point I don't know if I missed or wasn't brought up but with 1/8", there is such a thing as too much force as it will just buckle over anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I just noticed that my paragraph on forging the sholders didn't get posted. The far edge hammer blow held and hit at an angle is prabably the most challenging blow to hit. You can use aids: spring fuller, guilloutine, or striker with top tools. If you do it free handed, it can help to lead up to the edge instead of trying to hit the exact edge from the start. You'll be able to feel the egde better, and you'll see each hammer blow as you approach the final edge blow. Don't forget to check your material back because that extreme profile will colapse on itself. Turn your piece so you forge more equally on all sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 If you do it free handed, it can help to lead up to the edge instead of trying to hit the exact edge from the start. You'll be able to feel the egde better, and you'll see each hammer blow as you approach the final edge blow. I'm a little confused as to leading up to the edge means exactly. Could you clarify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglet_74 Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Thanks for the replies. Everything you're pointing out accurately describes the problems I had. Brian, I'm looking forward to trying the techniques you described this weekend when I get a chance. I've been trying some leaves from Mark Aspery's book "Skills of a Blacksmith". In it he uses a Rounding hammer and the horn for the point of the leaf. Sounds a lot like what you described Brian. I did recently get a smithin magician but I wanted to try some of the shoulders by hand first. I've been using little projects to practice certain techniques lately. I'll post some pics tonight. Thanks again, Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 You can make a guillotine or spring fuller dies of the radius you want for the point and forge the point back from the end of the stock by the same width. For 1" strip stock, fuller 1" back from the end. Fuller it till the end nearly parts from the strip and remove the excess with a chisel, saw, bolt cutters, etc. Leaving the extra on the end will help keep the fuller drawing true and save you a lot of time. Forge the shoulder behind the spade in the same way just stop sooner. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 I'm a little confused as to leading up to the edge means exactly. Could you clarify? While you hold the piece off the edge where you want your sholder, start hammering with your hammer tilted slightly back from the edge and then to the edge. Don't start trying to hit the exact blow you want to finish with. You'll feel and see the development of the sholder. Rob, I'm glad you asked the question about technique. Forging is just a few basic techniques, and the two you were having difficulty with are some of the most common. Handwork takes practice, but knowing the basic dies that we use to do whatever we choose can be known with reason, and that is what I like about all of this. It will only do what you do to it, no more, no less. It's natural law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglet_74 Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 A friend is a civil war re-enactor. He asked if I could make him a Camp tripod, trammel, and 20 tent stakes. I figured I could practice square corners and forging on the diamond for the point. I just think the twist is required when given square stock The trammel was good practice punching and sizing holes and forging down 1 1/4" x 3/16" into a about 3/8 square for the top hook. With the planter I was trying to do a pass through with the 3/8 rod and the 1" flat. That's where I was trying to do the spade points also. The striker was practicing leaves. It was a gift for a friends son. Unfortunately, I knew he (the dad) was all thumbs. He dropped it on cement and it snapped in half. More practice this weekend. The planter got wire welded because it needs to be done. Other wise I would have tried riveting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglet_74 Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 Continued... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 While you hold the piece off the edge where you want your sholder, start hammering with your hammer tilted slightly back from the edge and then to the edge. Don't start trying to hit the exact blow you want to finish with. You'll feel and see the development of the sholder. I probably know exactly what you're talking about and may even do it. I'm confused over what's the edge and what's the other edge and the third edge has me back 360 degrees. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 I probably know exactly what you're talking about and may even do it. I'm confused over what's the edge and what's the other edge and the third edge has me back 360 degrees. :confused: The edge is the same for all three. The far side edge of the anvil. The edge on the other side of the anvil from where you stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Thanks for clarifying. I was right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piglet_74 Posted August 13, 2009 Author Share Posted August 13, 2009 In the picture of the planter you can see how long the tapers became. I just made the two of them match since I couldn't get them the way I wanted. The pass through I used a small slit chisel and a bent end on a piece of 3/8". I would drive the end back at me and use the bent rod to drive the loop down into the hardie hole. Then I used a 3/8 drift to size it and make adjustments. It's seemed to work OK some I'm guessing that's the way to do that. I did rip one I think because I didn't drive it beck enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.